Yong Peng,

From my pupils who have drunk and been drunk, they tell me that a drunk has less inhibition about doing something.

I suppose then that the "sobre" commit evil blatantly, while the drunk or inebriate let their latent tendencies take out.

Understandably, such mental states are close to the instinctual nature of the animal kingdom.

I think the various realms of existence are interesting when they are examined in terms of our habits and mental states.

Perhaps we now need to "Buddhist Psychology" website.

Sukhi: may more be sobre and mindful.

Piya

--- Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote:

> Dear Ven. Pesala, Alan, Dmytro, Ole, John, Nina, Robert, Piya,
> Stephen and friends,
>
> thanks for the interesting discussion. I think this is a very
> popular
> topic among Buddhists, and it has appeared at least once on this
> list.
>
> The Chinese classified this precept as a "covering" precept, i.e. as
>
> a preventive measure to the other four precepts.
>
> The incident given below seems to be for the monks. I have heard of
>
> another story where a person violates all the first four precepts
> after getting drunk, leading to the Buddha establishing the fifth
> precept.
>
> I would tend to agree that the fifth precept is established later
> than the other four. It is like the Buddha's first disciples only
> took refuge in the Dual-Gem: Buddha and Dhamma (not Triple-Gem).
>
> I do not dispute with the fifth precept, although I am a social
> drinker. However, I like to point out an interesting phenomenon. We
>
> all are aware that the most heinous crimes in history are committed
>
> by sober men, not under the effect of alcohol or whatever. Yet,
> Buddhists tend to highlight and emphasise the fifth precept as
> though
> alcohol is the root of all evil. To me, it seems to be too "out of
> the world", and it makes me wonder if that is why it takes so long
> for Buddhists to be socially engaging, i.e. to really know the real
>
> issues to tackle. Or, if that's an excuse for Buddhists not to face
>
> real socal issues, especially if it means confrontation with others.
>
> I think the Buddha's teachings is far beyond even the five
> precepts.
>
>
> metta,
> Yong Peng.
>
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Alan McClure wrote:
>
> "When Gotama arrived in Kosambii in 520 BC, all such things still
> lay
> in the future. The king's indifference to the Sangha, however, was
>
> obvious and was reflected in the low morale of the local monks. How
>
> embarrassing for the Buddha to find the bhikkhu Saagata lying before
>
> the city gate of Kosambii, dead drunk!. On his alms-round, he had
> drunk a cup of palm-wine at every door. It was not exactly a
> triumphal procession in which monks carried their intoxicated
> confrere back to the monastery, doubtless to the accompaniment of
> witty comments from the citizenry. This event provided the occasion
>
> for the Buddha to issue an order prohibiting alcohol for the monks
> (SV 51.1). Later he decreed that novices who were found to be
> drinkers should be refused full ordination (MV 1.60)."
>
>
>
>
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