Re: Origin of Pali language

Hello again Aslam


It is interesting that you say Pali may have been taught in
Pakistan.

We must be a little careful of what we mean by 'Pali' here.
Traditionally, the Sinhalese scholars say Pali = Magadhi, but this
is disproved by the Asokan inscriptions, which vary in certain
details from Pali (such as substitutiong final e for the Pali o in
several cases; also they tend to omit doubled consonants, etc.).
Obviously, we are just talking about slightly varying dialects here,
not radically different languages.

I have not heard of any evidence that Pali as such was taught in the
North-west. The manuscript finds from the area are typically in what
they sometimes call 'Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit', which is based on a
Prakrit somewhat later than Pali, with varying degrees of Sanskrit
influence. One of these dialects is sometimes called Gandhari.

Of course, it would be expected that these languages, closely akin
to Pali, might leave some traces in the modern speech of the region.
Is this what you mean? Or is it that specific features of Pali as
found in the Sinhalese canon are traceable?

in peace

Bhante Sujato



--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, aslam rasoolpuri <aslamrasoolpuri@...>
wrote:

>
> Hi Bhante Sujato
>
> Thank you very much for so detailed informations.I am working

about old language of north west India (Now Pakistan ---Old Indus
Sarswati valley).I found several words of Pali in Pakistani language
like my mother tongue Siraiki.Some linguists of Pakistan say that
there was deep influence of Pali in Pakistani languages due to
University of Texla where Pali was taught and some legend persons
were professors of that Univesity like Panini and Chankyya .

>
> I am grateful to you that you helped me,indeed i approached to

some basic questions from your reply

>
> Bhante Sujato <sujato@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Aslam
>
> Your question is not an easy one, and the scholars do not agree. I
> am no expert, but as i understand the matter lies like this. Some
> say Pali originated in Kosala; others that it derives from the

south-

> east coast areas of Inda.
>
> Many, however, think that Pali originated in Avanti, to the south
> west of the Buddha's central region in the Ganges valley. The
> Theravada school evidently had their headquarters there before
> moving to Sri Lanka, so it seems that this is where they
> standardized the language of the canon into the local Avanti
> dialect.
>
> The Pali texts, however, retain traces of so-called 'eastern'

forms,

> or 'Magadhisms', the most famous being the word the Buddha uses to
> address the monks - 'bhikkhave'. The 'correct' Pali form should
> be 'bhikkhavo', and this form is found in the narrative background
> settings to the suttas, but not the suttas themselves. This could

be

> taken as a sign that the Buddha himself spoke something
> like 'Magadhi', and that the suttas preserve a remnant of his

actual

> dialect that escaped standardizing into standard Pali. Whether or
> not this is the case, many scholars believe that the occasional
> Magadhisms in the Pali are evidence of an earlier dialect that the
> suttas were originally preserved in.
>
> As for places where Pali is spoken today, as far as i know it has
> not been a spoken language for a long time, except occasionally in
> the monasteries. It would be interesting to know if there was
> anywhere in India that still spoke a descendant dialect.
>
> As i said, i am no expert, and am not up-to date on the scholarly
> research on the point, so it would be good to hear from others on
> this.
>
> with metta
>
> Bhante Sujato
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Aslam Rasoolpuri"
> <aslamrasoolpuri@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am from Pakistan and interested old language of Indus

valley .I

> > want to know about origin and effects of Pali on other south
> Asian
> > languages
> >
> > My next request is that what was first area of Pali language
> where
> > it was being spoken in the period of Buddha and nowadys where

it

> is
> > being spoken
> >
> > I hope any friend will reply my question.Thanks
> >
> > http://www.aslamrasoolpuri.20fr.com
>
>
>
>
>
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