Hi Jeff,

Jhaana is one of the most difficult experiences to describe without
actually having gone through it oneself. I haven't. However, Ajahn
Brahmavamso in his upcoming book on "The Beautiful Breath" gives a
very beautiful, easy to follow and understand account on what Vitakka
and Vicaara means in the contaxt of the First Jhaana which I quote :
The "Wobble" (Vitakka and Vicaara). All jhaanas are states of
unmoving bliss, almost. However in the Fisrt Jhaana, there is some
movement discernible. I call this movement the "wobble" of First
Jhaana. One is aware of great bliss, so powerful it has subdued
completely the part of the ego that wills and does. In Jhaana, one
is on automatic pilot, as it were, with no sense of being in
control. However the bliss is so delicious that it can generate a
small residue of attachment.. The mind, not the doer, instinctively
grasps at the bliss. Because of First Jhaana is fuelled by letting
go, such involuntary grasping weakens the bliss. Seeing the bliss
weaken, the mind automatically lets go of its grasping and the bliss
increases in power again. The mind then grasps again, then lets go
again. Such subtle involuntary movement gives rise to the wobble of
First Jhaana.
This process can be perceived in another way. As the bliss
weakens because of the involuntary grasping, it seems as if
mindfulness moves a small distance away from the bliss. Then the
mindfulness gets pulled back into the bliss as the mind automatically
lets go. This back and forth movement closs to the bliss, is a
second way of describing the same First Jhaana wobble.
This wobble is, in fact, the pair of First Jhaana factors
called Vitakka and Vicaara. Vicaara is the involuntary grasping of
the bliss. Vitaqkka is the automatic movement back inot bliss. Somne
commentators expain the pair, Vitakka and Vicaara, as "initial
thought" and "sustained thought". While in other contexts this pair
can refer to thought, in Jhaanas they certainly mean something else.
It is impossible that such a gross activity as thinking can exist in
such a refined state as Jhaana. In fact, thinking ceases a long
time prior to Jhaana. In Jhaana, Vitakka and Vicaara are both sub-
verbal and so don't qualify as thought. Vitakka is the sub-verbal
movement of mind back into bliss. Vicaara is the sub-verbal movement
of mind that holds on to the bliss. Outside of Jhaana, such movement
will often generate thought, and sometimes even speech. But in
Jhaana, Vitakka and Vicaara are too subtle to create any thought.
All they are capable of doing is moving mindfulness back onto the
bliss, and holding mindfulness there. This movement is the wobble of
First Jhaana, represented as the pair of First Jhaana factors,
Vitakka and Vicaara."

Hope this helps.
mettacittena
Cheang Oo

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, macdocaz1@... wrote:
> A critic of the translation of the Pali terms 'vitakka' and 'vicára'
>
> I have been studying the Pali canon in English translation as a
means of
> providing canonical support for my subjective contemplative
experiences. Through
> this study I have come across a few key areas that seem like errors
in
> translation. The Pali terms 'vitakka' and 'vicára' are two of
those words that seem
> to be incorrectly translated. I have appended to this post a copy
of a
> definition for the Pali words 'vitakka' and 'vicára' from
NYANATILOKA's, Manual of
> Buddhist Terms and Doctrines.
>
> There you will find NYANATILOKA translates 'vitakka' and 'vicára'
as
> "thought-conception and discursive thinking', (or 'applied and
sustained thought')."
> I do not believe the historic Buddha was intending that one arrive
at jhana
> through an intellectual activity, but one of subjective
investigation through
> meditation, therefore not as a process of thinking and reasoning.
>
> I believe it must be an erroneous translation of the Pali words
> "vitakka-vicára" to say that through an intellectual pursuit, such
as "applied and
> sustained thought" the Buddha said one can arrive at jhana. On the
Jhana Support
> Group, we have found no evidence to support a belief
that "intellectual
> investigation," or "applied and sustained thought," or "thought-
conception and
> discursive thinking" will ever lead anywhere other than ignorance
delusion and doubt
> (dukkha).
>
> I believe vitakka and vicára, if they lead to jhana, must be better
> translated as 'concentration' in which one "turns and returns one's
mind," or "applies
> and reapplies" one's attention to one's meditation object. It is
however
> possible that the Pali language might be inadequate to make the
distinction
> between concentration and discursive thinking.
>
> Thank-you very much for your time. If you care to discuss this
further,
> then please respond to me either here, or directly off-list, or on
the Jhana
> Support Group.
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Jeff Brooks
>
> Jhana Support Group
> A support group for ecstatic contemplatives
> website http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jhanas/
> Subscribe: Jhanas-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> From the Buddhist Dictionary
> Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines,
> by NYANATILOKA
> http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/u_v/vitakka_vicaara.htm
>
> vitakka-vicára
>
> 'thought-conception and discursive thinking', (or 'applied and
sustained
> thought') are verbal functions (vací-sankhára: s. sankhára) of the
mind, the
> so-called 'inner speech ('parole interieure'). They are
constituents of the 1st
> absorption (s. jhána), but absent in the higher absorptions.
>
> (1) "Thought-conception (vitakka) is the laying hold of a thought,
giving it
> attention. Its characteristic consists in fixing the consciousness
to the
> object.
>
> (2) "Discursive thinking (vicára) is the roaming about and moving
to and fro
> of the mind.... It manifests itself as continued activity of mind"
(Vis.M. IV).
>
> (1) is compared with the striking against a bell, (2) with its
resounding;
> (1) with the seizing of a pot, (2) with wiping it. (Cf. Vis . IV.).