Dear Michael, Nina and all

How are you?

The following is my quick translation of the Pali paragraph regarding
Ubatobhaagavimutto person.

I provided this quick translation because both existing translations
in print mentioned by Michael and by Nina are not very coherent.

"Katamo ca bhikkhave, puggalo ubhatobhaagavimutto? Idha,
bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo ye te santaa vimokkhaa atikkamma ruupe
aaruppaa te kaayena phusitvaa, viharati paññaaya cassa
disvaa aasavaa parikkhii.naa honti. Ayam vuccati, bhikkhave,
puggalo ubhatobhaagavimutto.

"And, Monks, what person is the one with dual liberation? Here,
Monks, a certain person, having transcended physical jhaana stages,
lives by realizing those non-physical jhaana stages that are still
and free, by the body of mind and mental associates. Due to also
seeing (nibbaana) by the Arahatta path wisdom, his defilements are
also completely defunct. Monks, this person is called the one with
dual liberation."

Section 182, Kii.taagiri Suttam, Majjhimapa.n.naaso, Majjhimanikaayo.

By looking at the Pali expression "atikkamma ruupe", we know for sure
that the expression "kaayena phusitvaa" does not refer to contacting
with a physical body at all.

Moreover, since the object of "kaayena phusitvaa" is "aaruppaa / non-
physical jhaana stages", we have no choice but to understand the
term "kaayena" only as the body of mind and mental associates - that
is to say - Naamakaayo.

Once we come to know that "kaayena" means "by the mental body", we
can no longer regard "phusitvaa / contacting" as "physically
contacting".

Instead, we have to understand "phusitvaa" only in the sense of
experiencing or realizing by the mind (cittam) and mental associates
(cetasika-s)

I hope that my above translation and explanations shed some light on
Michael's puzzles.

With regards,

Suan Lu Zaw

http://www.bodhiology.org

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Beisert" <mbeisert@...> wrote:

Hello Friends,

I have a question:

The translation made by Bhikkhu Boddhi of the Kitagiri Sutta ( MN 70)
in par
15 states that 'Here some person contacts with the body ... ' The same
phrase is repeated in the following sections which describe the
different
kinds of noble disciples.

Could anyone shed some light on what this 'contact with the body
means'? Is
it physical body or mental body? What kind of contact is the sutta
referring
to?

Metta
Michael