Re: chanting

Mahalo nui loa (thank you very much) Big Mike! Your very informed and well
articulated response was very much appreciated. After I sent in my first
posting, I scrolled down a bit and read that post wonderful written post
from Nina? that you attached. I immediately thought "whoops" - I should
have waited until I read more! :-).

I don't have much to contribute - Just some elementary questions :-). And
probably ones that are rehashes of stuff already covered.

Aloha pumehana,
Rodney


At 06:02 AM 9/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi Rodney,
>
>And welcome--
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: ryhorikawa <ryhorikawa@...>
>To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 8:55 PM
>Subject: [Pali] Re: chanting
>
>
> > Aloha Mai Kakou Folks - Sorry for jumping into this in medias
> > res. I'm brand new to this listserv :-)
>
>Very glad to meet you--sorry I'm ignorant of Hawaiian!
>
> > On this topic, wouldn't the fact that 1) the suttas were composed
> > in metrical form (which unfortunately is lost in translation and 2)
> > the suttas were -in the beginning- not "read" but orally
> > transmitted by bhanakas indicate that the Dharma was - to some
> > extent -"chanted" or "sung" ?
>
>Yes, this seems quite clear to me, too, from the vinaya (not to mention the
>existence of the word 'bhaa.naka'). chanting was clearly approved but
>singing disapproved. One of my favorite characters from the vinaya, Dabba
>the Mallian (a seven-year-old arahanta), is assigning viharas:
>
>"...For those monks who knew the Suttantas he assigned lodgings in the same
>place, thinking: "These will be able to chant over the Suttantas to one
>another..."*
>
>Culavagga IV, p. 99 (PTS)
>
>This following was posted recently but is maybe pertinent enough to repost:
>
>Bhikkhus, there are these five dangers when Dhamma is chanted with a long,
>singing sound:
>
>He is pleased with himself regarding that sound, (= pride)
>
>Others are pleased regarding that sound (they have regard for it but not for
>Dhamma)
>
>Householders look down upon him (as music is for those who enjoy
>sense-pleasures)
>
>While trying for accuracy of sound his concentration is broken, (he neglects
>the meaning of what he is chanting)
>
>People coming after fall into views (by emulation) ("saying: Our teachers
>and preceptors sang it thus" [Commentary] -- a source of both pride and
>quarreling among later generations of Buddhists).
>
>-- Vinaya Pitaka, ii. 108 (from ATI)
>
>Looking forward to your correspondence.
>
>mike
>
>*Very interestingly, to me, this continues further on: "...For those monks
>who were talkers on inferior matters and who were athletic he assigned
>lodgings at the same place, thinking: "These reverend ones will live
>according to their pleasure..."
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705073947:HM/A=1706996/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30509&media=atkins>1fae69.jpg
>1faecd.jpg
>
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>[Homepage] <http://www.tipitaka.net>http://www.tipitaka.net
>[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
>Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
>Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
>web only.
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Rodney Yasushi Horikawa
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Community Building Coordinator
Campus Community Partnerships Team
1552 University Ave.
Madison, WI 53726
608-263-4536
ryhorikawa@...

"Power can really be understood only in the context of resistance."
- Michel Foucault

"There is no such thing as a neutral educational process. Education either
functions as an instrument which is used to facilitate the integration of
the younger generation into the logic of the present system and bring about
conformity to it, or it becomes the practice of freedom...the means by
which men and women deal critically and creatively with the reality and
discover how to participate in the transformation of their world."
- Paulo Freire

"Never let school get in the way of your education."
- sign hanging in the Fairbanks, Alaska office of Dennakkanaaga (an
agency dedicated to collecting oral stories from Athabascan Elders)

"Those who have been required to memorize the world as it is will never
create the world as it might be"
- Judith Groch

"What appears to coming at you, is really coming from you"
- old saying from India

"Power at its best is love implementing
the demands of justice. Justice at its
best is love correcting everything that
stands against love."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]