Re: MN 62: Mahaaraahulovaada sutta.m [7] yena tena [8] paccatta.m

Dear Nina,
Thanks for your feedback.

And thanks to all the others on the list for all the
helpful comments on the yena ... tena ...
construction. I think we've probably beaten that one
to death now. The beauty of the trilinear approach is
that it provides BOTH literal and idiomatic
translation of the Pali, suiting the needs of all.

As to my translation of paragraph 8, I have been
rethinking the best way to render 'paccattam', based
on your helpful comments, Nina. Now I think
'individually' is more appropriate, and that sentence
fragment would now read:
Ya.m ki~nci raahula ajjhatta.m paccatta.m
kakkhala.m kharigata.m
That / whatever / Rahula / internally / individually /
solid / solidified
Rahula, whatever internally, and individually, is
solid, solidified,

What do you think?
John
--- nina van gorkom <nilo@...> wrote:

> John,
> So it would give stress to the village? A matter of
> stress? but it is always
> used in such contexts.
> As to paccatta.m, difficult to translate. Separate
> does not seem to make
> much sense. It is translated as individual. It is
> said, for example:
> paccatta.m veditabbo vi~n~nuuhi'ti: everybody should
> comprehend this for
> himself. A private, individual matter. In this
> context we could say:
> individual. The PTS has: referable to an individual.
> Nina.
>
> op 22-01-2003 20:35 schreef John Kelly op
> palistudent@...:
>
> > Nina, Yong Peng,
> >
> > Yena ... tena ... and similar constructions are
> indeed
> > used extensively in the canon. It is also
> explained
> > in the Gair/Karunatillake book which I've been
> working
> > through.
> >
> > Yena gaamo tena upasa.mkami.
> > This can be translated simply as "I approached the
> > village".
> > Perhaps, a rough way to see how this is literally
> > derived would be something like "To which village,
> to
> > that I approached."
> >
> > John
> > --- nina van gorkom <nilo@...> wrote:
> >> Dear Yong Peng,
> >> Thank you. Some fellow students may have a
> question
> >> on yena..tena: I looked
> >> it up in Warder: Ch 12:
> >> yena is instrumental of yad, which. Used with a
> verb
> >> of motion it means
> >> where, towards. Often used with the correlative
> tena
> >> preceding the verb.
> >> Yena gaamo tena upasa.mkami. I am sure there is
> more
> >> to it. I leave it
> >> untranslated. it occurs very often in the texts.
> I
> >> wonder whether something
> >> special is expressed by these words.
> >> Nina
> >>
> >> op 21-01-2003 04:44 schreef Ong Yong Peng
> >> <ypong001@...> op
> >> ypong001@...:
> >>>
> >>> The section is now as follows:
> >>
> >>> Bhagavaa - the Blessed One
> >>> tenupasa'nkami = tena + upasa'nkami
> >>> tena - who
> >>> upasa'nkami - go up to, approach (upasankamati)
> >>>
> >>> [and] approached the Blessed One.
> >>>
> >>> upasa'nkamitvaa - having approached
> >>> Bhagavanta.m - the Blessed One
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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