yena gaamo tena upasa.mkami
the missing words shld be filled as follows:
yena (disabhaagena)gaamo (atthi) , tena (disabhaagena)
(he or bhagavaa) upasa.mkami
by whichever (dirction) the village (exists), (he)
went by that (direction.)
--- Piya Tan <libris@...> wrote:

> Dear Yong Peng & friends,
>
> One possible idiomatic translation is:
>
> Then in the evening the Venerable Raahula rose from
> his meditation retreat.
>
> ALTERNATE TRANSLATION,
> Then in the evening the Venerable Raahula emerged
> from his meditation
> retreat.
>
> DISCUSSION.
> I have a preference for simple Anglo-Saxon words
> rather than latinized or
> hellenized English words (like "walk" instead of
> "ambulate"). Although the
> alternate translation appears more accurate, I
> prefer the simpler first
> translation which reflects the spirit of the Pali
> sentence more beautifully
> and idiomatic.
>
> The "yena...tena" sentence is a correlative (like
> "when...then", or
> "either...or") and is Pali idiom, and as such can
> only be reflected in the
> gloss (literal translation) but has to be idiomatic
> English for readability.
> It is skillful to remember in translation here (in
> our case) that we are
> doing this for the non-expert who wants to know
> Dharma and rather than learn
> Pali (which is the function of the gloss, anyway).
>
> Sukhi.
>
> P.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ypong001@...>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 4:31 PM
> Subject: [Pali] Re: MN 62: Mahaaraahulovaada sutta.m
> [7] yena tena
>
>
> > Dear Ven. Kumara, Nina, John, Pakdi and Piya,
> >
> > thanks. I am referring to Warder's Introduction to
> Pali 3rd Edition
> > (PTS 1991).
> >
> > Piya is right. In chapter 12, under the section
> Relative
> > Indeclinables (p73):
> > yena gaamo tena upasa.mkami
> > he approached the village
> >
> > The word upasa.mkami is in 3rd person, aorist,
> singular (chpt. 4,
> > p24).
> >
> > As for the phrase, I have got the order wrong as I
> was thinking in
> > English grammatically. It should be broken up as
> such:
> >
> > Atha kho aayasmaa Raahulo saayanhasamaya.m
> > then / venerable *(respectful appellation) /
> Rahula / at evening time
> > (PED sayanha)
> > Then, at evening time, the venerable Rahula
> >
> > pa.tisallaanaa vu.t.thito
> > retirement for the purpose of meditation, solitude
> / risen, got up
> > got up from solitude
> >
> > yena Bhagavaa tenupasa'nkami
> > who / the Blessed One / who approached
> > [and] approached the Blessed One.
> > tenupasa'nkami = tena + upasa'nkami
> > tena - who
> > upasa'nkami - go up to, approach (upasankamati)
> >
> > Please correct me if there is any mistake.
> >
> >
> > metta,
> > Yong Peng.
> >
> > --- Piya Tan wrote:
> > > Dear Pali friends,
> > >
> > > It's good we are having a clearer idea of the
> literal translation
> > of the
> > > phrase. However, "upasa.nkami" is not "'I'
> approached" but "'he'
> > > approached".
> > >
> > > "I approached" = upasa.nkami.m (see Warder
> 1974:24).
> > >
> > > Idiomatic tr:
> > > "He approached the village."
> > >
> > > Note:
> > > Keep the literal translation "literal", that is,
> translate the word
> > as it
> > > is. For example, "viharati" = "he stays".
> > > In the "idiomatic" translation, this is usually
> translated into the
> > past
> > > tense or past continuous (in the sutta opening):
> > > "(While the Buddha) was staying at...." or "(the
> Buddha) stayed
> > at...".
> > >
> > > In this sense canonical Pali does not place high
> priority on
> > grammar but on
> > > teaching.
> > >
> > > Sukhi.
> > >
> > > P.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "pakdi yanawaro" <prapakdi@...>
> > > To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 11:35 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: MN 62: Mahaaraahulovaada
> sutta.m [7] yena
> > tena
> > >
> > >
> > > > yena gaamo tena upasa.mkami shld be yena
> > > > (disabhaagena) gaamo (aasi), tena
> (disabhaagena) (so)
> > > > upasa.mkami = by whichever direction the
> village
> > > > existed, he went by that direction. ---
> Kumaara
> > > > Bhikkhu <venkumara@...> wrote:
> > > > > To be as literal as possible and still sound
> > > > > English, maybe we can say:
> > > > > I approached where the village was.
> > > > >
> > > > > kb
> > > > >
> > > > > At 03:35 AM 23-01-03, John Kelly wrote:
> > > > > >Yena gaamo tena upasa.mkami.
> > > > > >This can be translated simply as "I
> approached the
> > > > > >village".
> > > > > >Perhaps, a rough way to see how this is
> literally
> > > > > >derived would be something like "To which
> village,
> > > > > to
> > > > > >that I approached."
> >
> >
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>

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