Dear Dimitry,
It's weeks since you posted your thoughtful response
to my translations of the exercises in lessons 8 and 9
(which I posted at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files/Gair%20Karunatillake/
), and I've only now had a chance to review carefully
my original translations with your comments in mind.

The majority of your suggestions were significant
improvements on my attempt, and in some cases I really
was a little off the mark. Thank you!

I just have a couple of questions:
Lesson 8, Section 1, #3.
You suggest "patiruupa" s/b translated by "example".
I used "proper", based on the book's glossary and PED
which indicates the meaning as "fit, proper, suitable,
befitting, seeming". Can you elaborate on your
interpretation?

Lesson 9, Section 2, #3.
You suggest "pappupphaka.m" s/b translated as
"blooming flowers" (based on the Sanskrit dictionary),
but Gair and PED both translate this as "flower-tipped
arrow".

Thanks again for all your great help with this,
John
--- "������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
Ivakhnenko)" <koleso@...> wrote:

> Dear John,
>
> We've done three fourths! The finish is close.
>
> My suggestions are:
>
> Lesson 8
> Section 1
> 1.
> atha kho - and then;
>
> "How tranquil are the faculties of master Gotama,
> how clean and
> unblemished the complexion."
>
> 'bho' is an adress to equals or juniors 'bhavant',
> therefore instead
> of 'master' 'sir' fits better.
>
> 2.
> tena kho pana samayena - and at that very time;
>
> 'Was being prepared', 'were brought up'. The
> narrational Pali present
> is better rendered by past time.
>
> 'Gotama completely agrees with us'. There's no 'we
> say'.
>
> bhante - venerable sir. Why 'Lord'?
>
> 3.
> 'and lapses into everything it wishes';
>
> sududdasa.m - very difficult to see;
>
> patiruupa - example;
> kilissati - defiles himself;
>
> Let one firstly set an example himself;
> Then he may instruct others, thus the wise one won't
> defile himself.
>
> Section 2
> 1.
> 'in the Peaked Roof pavilion';
>
> Mahaavana - Great Forest;
>
> 'point out the visible fruit of generosity'
>
> daayaka - donor;
>
> bhajati - 'serves' (synonym of 'sevati')(see 'bhaj'
> in Sanskrit
> dictionary);
>
> daayaka.m daanapati.m santo sappurisaa bhajanti -
> generous lay donor
> is well served by virtuous people;
>
> ama'nkubhuuto - without cofusion;
>
> 2.
> pavatti - perpetration;
>
> ayoniso - superficial, shallow (attention);
> yoniso - acute, shrewd, thorough (attention);
>
> 3.
> "If a monk is of such character,..."
>
> kalyaa.namitto - virtuous friend;
>
> 4.
> ... who is reborn slower and who faster - one who
> after death is reborn in
> the Brahma world, or one who after death is reborn
> in Kashmir?
>
> With the same (speed), great king.
>
> cintita is a past participle, therefore:
>
> I have thought, venerable sir.
>
> About which (place) you thought slower, great king,
> and about which
> faster?
>
> With the same (speed), great king.
>
> Just so, great king, one who after death is reborn
> in the
> Brahma world, and one who after death is reborn in
> Kashmir,
> do it with the same speed (in the same amount of
> time).
>
> Give me one more analogy.
>
> What do you think, great king, if two birds fly in
> the sky and one
> sits higher on a tree, and the other lower on a
> tree, if they land (on
> a tree) simultaneously, the shadow of which one
> would land on the ground
> first, and which one later?
>
> Lesson 9
> 1.
> ...in the town of Bhoga near the cairn named Ananda.
>
> bhadante - venerable sir;
>
> mahaapadesa - great argument;
>
> eva.m vadeyya - may say thus;
>
> otaariyamaana - being collated (according to
> Margaret Cone
> dictionary);
>
> Without rejoicing or rejection, thoroughly studying
> these sentences
> and syllables, they should collate them to the
> discourses, and compare
> them with the rules of discipline.
>
> 3.
> chanda.m - desire;
>
> bhadra - good fortune;
>
> But when good fortune ripens, the good-doer sees
> good fortune.
>
> Just as poison does not enter when there is no
> wound,
> so there is no evil for one who does not commit it.
>
> Those with good fortune go to heaven, those without
> taints get to
> highest calm.
>
> Section 2
> 1.
> bhante - venerable sir;
>
> ...conquering both worlds, he conducts himself. Thus
> he undertakes
> well this world and the next.
>
> 2.
> "What if I will preach the Doctrine."
>
> 3.
> Who will conquer this earth,
> And this world of yama, together with its gods?
> Who will pick out the well-proclaimed path of the
> truth
> Just as a skillful person picks out the flower?
>
> In second verse there's no question.
>
> papupphaka.m - blooming flower
> (see pra-pu.spita in Monier-Williams dictionary);
>
> Having realized that this body is like foam,
> Understanding its illusory nature,
> And cutting the blooming flowers of Mara,
> One may go unseen past the king of death.
>
> maana - conceit;
>
> That fool who considers himself fool,
> Is in fact wise because of this;
> Whereas that fool who conceits he is wise,
> He is indeed called a fool.
>
> Hopefully these suggestions will help.
>
> Metta,
> Dimitry
>
>
>

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