Re: SN: puzzling suttas about monks lying

Frank,

I was quoting this Samyutta passage only couple of months. First, of all, we have
to understand the "hierarchy of worldly values" in the Buddha's society. In this
case, obviously "reputation, fame and honour" are placed higher that a mere piece of
"silver bowl", definitely even of "a bowl full of rice".

Secondly, the Buddha is here warning the monks against wrong speech, specifically
lying for gain (becoming even more sophisticated today!). The Buddha is almost
sounding a prophetic warning, as it were: paraphrased:

"You may not live for small trinkets, but I know you might lie for bigger things!"

P.

frank kuan wrote:

> There's a section of suttas (repetitive with minor
> variations) in Samyutta that goes something like this:
>
> Buddha: With my ability to emcompass the minds of
> others with my own mind (i.e. mind reading), I noticed
> that one of you virtuous monks in this assembly who
> would not tell a deliberate lie for a silver bowl
> filled with gold, or tell a lie to save the life of
> your own mother, has told a lie for the sake of
> reputation, fame, and honor.
>
> -=======================
> Does anyone know SPECIFICS? Like exactly what the lie
> is? From the commentary notes, it looks like the
> motivation would be to have fame among lay supporters
> so they could be invited more often and for better
> quality of food, robes, offered.
>
> I'm really curious to know exactly what kind of lie,
> and how subtle the lie, and how subtle their
> motivation these monks used in seeking
> fame/honor/reputation.
>
> I'm short on time at the moment, but if necessary I
> can look up exact page numbers and section numbers in
> the next couple of days.
>
> -fk
>
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