Rob:

> Sometimes with these translations there are some minor
> rough spots. Other times there are potholes so large they
> swallow up a truck with single gulp and ask what's for
> dessert. In my opinion, this week's text resembled the
> latter more than the former.

Grace:

> I had many difficulties with this section and would
> welcome any help.

This sounds ominous ...

> Konungur mælti: "Miklir ágætismenn eru slíkt sem þú ert
> því að þú ert enn lítið af barnsaldri og sæk þegar á vorn
> fund er þú kemur aftur."

> (The) king speaks: "Many excellent-men are in-such-wise as
> you are because you are yet still a child and seek at-once
> to our meeting when you come after. (CV lítið af
> barnsaldri, still a child)

> (The) king spoke, "Many such as you are, are excellent men
> because you are still (but) little from childhood and
> immediately (you) seek a meeting with us when you come
> back."

> (The) king spoke: “Great are men-of-excellence such as you
> are because you are still little (scarecely advanced) from
> child’s-age and seek (you, ie imperative) at-once to our
> meeting when you come back.”

Rob & Grace: <mikill> 'great' can be 'much', but 'many'
would be <margr>. I think that <Miklir ágætismenn eru slíkt
sem þú ert> is 'Great men of excellence are such as you
are', i.e., 'you have the characteristics of exceptional
men'. The reason given is indeed 'because you are still
little (more than) a child', but I think that the
implication is 'because this is an impressive undertaking
for one so young'.

As Alan says, <sæk> is imperative: that endingless form can
only be either the imperative or the first person singular
indicative, and in this sentence the latter interpretation
is impossible. The king is directing Ólaf to visit again as
soon as he comes back.

> Voru þeir flestir innanborðs að á kom hafvilla.

> They were most on-board that came to
> a-loss-of-one's-course-at-sea.

> Most of those onboard were to (not sure how to translate :
> að á kom) lose (their) bearings at sea.

> They were most on board that came to (?) a loss of one’s
> course at sea.

We have two verbs, <voru> and <kom>, one plural and one
singular, both needing subjects. There's no problem picking
<þeir> as the subject of <voru>. <Hafvilla> is the only
singular noun to be seen, and it's in the nominative, so it
must be the subject of <kom>. <Að> here seems to be used as
a relativizing particle instead of the expected <er>; I
interpret the whole as I would <Váru þeir flestir innanborðs
er á kom hafvilla>, making the second clause 'on whom
<hafvilla> came'. The first clause is literally as Rob and
Alan have it, and the meaning (and normal English
translation) is as Grace has it; to get both, one might try
'They were most [of those] on board on whom <hafvilla>
came', i.e., '<hafvilla> came on most of those on board'.

I did some digging, and it seems that <hafvilla> (also used
in the plural <hafvillur> and sometimes even as an
apparently masculine noun <hafvillr>) is more than just a
loss of one's course at sea. It's typically associated with
darkness, fog, being driven hither and yon by heavy winds
and strong seas, and total confusion about where one is and
where one's going. I've the impression that it implies a
good deal of anxiety and perhaps even extra confusion caused
by that anxiety. In other words, I suspect that it carries
considerable emotional freight. The sense therefore seems
to be something like 'Most of those on board were confused
and utterly lost'.

I see now that Zoëga s.v. <á> (A.III.7) notes the use of <á>
in connection with the air and the weather: <þoka var á
mikil> 'a thick fog was on', <allhvast á norðan> 'very
strong breeze from the north', <gørði á regn> 'rain came
on'. It appears that <á kom hafvilla> is parallel to this
last example. (The strong association of <hafvilla> with
weather may contribute to the usage.)

In case anyone's curious, here are the other constructions
that I found:

fá þeir veðr hörð ok hafvillu
fá þeir hafvillur

(These are the same, except that <hafvillu> is accusative
singular, and <hafvillur> is accusative plural.)

rekr á fyrir þeim storma ok myrkr ok hafvillur

(Zoëga s.v. <reka> (7) has <þá rak á fyrir þeim hríð> 'a
storm rose upon them'; here it's a storm and darkness and
<hafvillur>.)

koma nú á fyrir þeim myrkr ok hafvillur

(Here <koma á> seems to have the sense of <koma at> 'to
arrive, to happen'. In these <hafvillur> is nom. pl.)

gerir á fyrir þeim hafvillr

(<Hafvillr> is nom. sing.)

ok kom yfir mik ok mína menn þoka ok hafvillur

(The speaker is recounting a dream.)

Apparently <hafvilla> (or <hafvillur>) can 'come over' one,
'come upon' one, 'rise upon' one, and one can get/receive
it.

> Það varð um síðir að þoku hóf af höfði og
> gerðust vindar á.

> That was at last that (the) fog lifted and winds arose.
> (Z. höfuð 1 - þoku hóf af höfði, the fog lifted)

> It happened at last that (the) fog lifted off a
> headland??? and wind came up.

> That happened at-last that (it) raised (the) mist (ie the
> mist lifted) from (the) prow (see höfuð, Z3 (?) or just
> simply lifted) and (the) winds arose.

It's just '[the] fog lifted'. According to Z. and CV,
<höfði> here refers to the human head, so the literal sense
of the idiom would be '[the] fog rose from [the] head'. I
guess that once it's off your head, you can see a bit.

> Var þá tekið til segls.
> (It) was then (that they) began to sail.
> Then sails were raised.
> (It) was then taken to sails (ie they set the sail (?)).

Or raised it. CV s.v. <segl> apparently treats <vinda
segl>, <draga segl>, <setja upp segl>, <taka til segls>,
and <leggja ofan segl> as equivalent in meaning.

> Örn var til móts en mestur hluti manna mælti í gegn og
> kváðu Örn allan villast og sögðu þá ráða eiga er fleiri
> voru.

> Orn was on the opposite side than greatest things man
> spoke against and said Orn all lose one's way and said
> then have counsel which most were. (Z. mót 4 -vera til
> móts, to be on the opposite side)

> Orn was against (it), but (the) biggest part of the men
> spoke against (him) and declared Orn of all most false and
> said they who were in the majority had a right to decide.

> Örn was in-opposition but (and) the greater part of (the)
> men spoke against (him) and (they) declared Örn all to
> lose his bearings (and marbles :-) ) and (they) said those
> to have-the-right to decide who were more (ie the majority
> should decide).

Note that <allan> is masc. acc. sing. and so modifies <Örn>;
'they said that Örn in his entirety goes astray' -- meaning,
as Alan says, that he was totally confused about the proper
direction.

> Ólafur segir: "Ekki eru þau efni í um vort mál því að eg
> sé að boðar eru á bæði borð og allt fyrir skutstafn og
> felli seglið sem tíðast.

> Olaf says: "They are not conditions in around our case
> because I see that proclaims are both board and all before
> the stern and take-down the sails as quickly-as-possible.

> Olaf says, "(There) are no means in our case because I see
> that breakers are on both sides and all before (the) stern
> and drop the sail as quickly as possible.

> Ólafr says: ‘They are not (the) means s in our
> circimstance because I see that breakers (boði, Z2) are on
> both sides and completely in-front-of (the) stern and (so)
> drop the sail as soon-as-possible.

<Ekki eru þau efni í um várt mál> 'Those means are not "in"
concerning our matter', i.e., 'we don't have that option'.

> Og nær ætla eg það lögum þeirra Íra þótt þeir kalli fé
> þetta er vér höfum með að fara með sínum föngum því að
> heita láta þeir það vogrek er minnur er fjarað frá
> skutstafni."

> And I think in-accordance-with that their laws, (it)
> seemed-to (the) Irish they call this wealth which we have
> with (us) their catch (literally, "catches") because they
> cause to call that (vogrek??) which (minnur??) is
> left-aground from (the) stern. (Z nær 4 - in accordance
> with, in conformity to (n. ætla ek þat lögum Íra)

<Vogrek> is older <vágrek>; <minnur> is older <minnr>.

> And I expect it that in accordance with their laws in
> Ireland though they call this wealth which we have with
> (us) to go with their catch because they allow it to be
> called salvage which less? is high and dry from the
> stern."

> And I expect that, in accordance with the laws of Ireland,
> although (?) they would-claim this property which we have
> with us to go with their-own means (to become part of
> their own possessions ?) because they permit to call that
> wave-wreck (goods drifted ashore, flotsam) which (even)
> less is left aground from (the) stern (than our’s is).”

Oy. Let's see. Here I think that <ætla> is 'think,
suppose', so that <Og nær ætla eg það lögum þeirra Íra> is
'And I think it [= <það>] in accordance with (the) law of
the Irish'. (<Lög> is plural but refers to the law in
general, and as is characteristic of the medieval period,
it's the law of a people, not of a country.) This makes
<þótt> 'even if' a bit more intelligible: 'And I think it in
accordance with (the) law of the Irish even if they claim
this property'.

The clause <er vér höfum með að fara> modifies <fé þetta>;
I'm not entirely certain, but I think that <með> goes with
<fara>, not with <höfum>, making this a <hafa> plus
infinitive construction with the infinitive being <að fara
með>. (If it went with <höfum>, I'd expect a pronoun,
<höfum með oss>.) Fritzner's Ordbog gives a fuller
explanation of the <hafa> + infin. construction than either
Zoëga or CV; it seems in general to be simply a paraphrase
of the verb whose infinitive appears, but in the same tense
as the <hafa>. That would make <er vér höfum með að fara>
equivalent to <er vér með förum>.

<Fara með> has a variety of more or less related senses
which are spelled out in far more detail in Fritzner's
Ordbog than in Zoëga; one of them is given as 'tage, føre
noget med sig paa Veien', which I make out to be 'take,
carry something with one on the way', and another is 'have
noget i sin Besiddelse eller hos sig, have', which I
understand as 'have something in one's possession or with
one, have'. Either could make sense: 'And I think it in
accordance with (the) law of the Irish even if they claim
this property that we carry with us', 'And I think it in
accordance with (the) law of the Irish even if they claim
this property that we possess'.

The phrase <með sínum föngum> goes with <þeir kalli>: <þeir
kalli með sínum föngum>. My best guess is that this is
<föng> 'opportunity': 'they claim with their opportunity',
i.e., they take the opportunity afforded them by the ship's
near wreck to claim salvage rights.

That leaves <því að heita láta þeir það vogrek er minnur er
fjarað frá skutstafni>: 'because they have that called
flotsam that which is less ebbed from (the) stern', i.e.,
'because they classify as flotsam that from which the sea
has ebbed (even) less'. Putting it all together: 'And I
think it in accordance with (the) law of the Irish even if
they take their opportunity to claim this property that we
carry with us, because they classify as flotsam that from
which the sea has ebbed (even) less'.

Cor, that was brutal! Ominous indeed.

Brian