From: llama_nom
Message: 7230
Date: 2006-10-06
>
> Heill Victor.
>
> Eysteinn is right about the word in question. It is a rare word, and
> extant manuscripts do not seem to agree on how it should be written.
> It is a compound of two parts, the first part (óð- < *wôd-) likely
> related to inspiration (needed to compose poetry), and the second
> related to ON hroera/hrøra (<*hrôzian), MIce hræra, a weak verb
> meaning to stir. The -ir suffix(*-jaz)in hroerir/hrørir is an agent-
> suffix, so the likely meaning is 'inspiration/poetry-stirir'. The
> -er in ME words like 'stirer' is also an agent-suffix, having the
> same origin in Germanic, which hopefully helps to explain what it
> tends to imply in ON. The name Óðinn is likely related to the óð- in
> this rare word, and it is thought, but not known for certain, that
> it was originally a u-stem (Early Runic N. *wôduz A. *wôdu D. *wôdiu
> G. *wôdôz), but the extant instances and cases of ON óðr give
> conflicting evidence about its original declension. The Early Runic
> personal name Wôdurîdaz is attested in runic from about 400AD (its
> ON form would be Óðríðr), which would seem to support the idea that
> ON óðr was originally a u-stem. From the verb *hrôzian are derived,
> besides ON hroera/hrøra, Old English hrêran, Old Saxon hrôrian, Old
> High German hruoren, New High German ruhren (ulmauted u), all with
> the same range of meanings. Likely also related, by ablaut, is the
> Early Runic nom.sg.masc. a-stem hrazaz, a personal name or nickname.
> So how should this word be written in ON? It depends on the era of
> the language chosen, and the major issue here is the -h-. Take a
> look at the exhaustive list of options given below by Eysteinn. The
> variants with -ey- are likely due to either a) spelling variations
> for the sound long ø (also written oe) or b) mutation variations of
> original ô before z (*hrôzian) (z/R caused a variety of mutations in
> ON when it turned into r in West Norse, which can sometimes be seen
> in alternate forms of words with original z/R, for example: ýr/ór
> 'out of', ørlög, Erlandr (personal name), orrosta/orrusta/orresta
> 'battle', etc.etc.. The most conservative form, however, would be ON
> hroerir/hrørir (accent the ø = oe), because it shows only i-mutation
> of a preceeding ó by a following -i/j-. Given that this form occurs,
> I would stick with it. Lastly, the major issue: -h-. Gulp. By about
> 1200AD, this -h- would be gone due to simplification of consonant
> clusters of three or more consonants, by which rule the middle one
> has to go (Þórfríðr attested 1000AD in West Norse runes > Þórríðr
> Attested about 1120AD in a copy of Ari Fróði > MIce usually Þuríðr).
> However, the oldest manuscripts (like the 2 Homily Books, etc.), _do
> not show simplification of consonant clusters at all in compounds_,
> and show much less of it in non-compounds as well - but the complex
> rules on these non-compounds are irrelevant here, as this word is a
> compound. Thus, about 1200AD and later: óðroerir/óðrø'ir, but about
> 1100AD and earlier: óðhroerir/óðhrø'rir - because the simplification
> of consonant clusters of three or more consecutive consonants in
> compound words is thought to have begun during the 12th century,
> middle-later half. Hope this helps ;)
>
> Regards,
> Konrad
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Eysteinn Bjornsson"
> <eysteinn@> wrote:
> >
> > --- Victor Hansen wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe that the word Odhroerir is the old Norse for the
> symbol of the triple horn of Odin (is it referred to by any other
> names and how would those be pronounced?). Someone correct me if I
> am off track with this word but I'd be very interested to know the
> proper pronounciation of it (or as close as possible), if someone
> could give me a bit of help on this.
> > .
> > .
> > .
> >
> > We don't even know what the correct form ought to be, so we don't
> know for certain what the word means. The pronunciation
> would vary depending on which form you would prefer. Some forms
> possible are:
> >
> > Óðrerir
> > Óðreyrir
> > Óðrørir
> > Óðroerir
> > Óðhroerir
> >
> > In Skáldskaparmál, it is the name of one of three cauldrons
> > in which the dwarfs Fjalarr and Galarr caught the blood of Kvasir.
> > However, as used in Hávamál, Ó. appears to be the name of the
> > actual liquid therein, i.e. the poetic mead itself. I have never
> > heard of "the triple horn of Óðinn" and doubt it is mentioned
> > anywhere in Icelandic sources. A dubious school of mythological
> > interpretation even equates Ó. with Mímisbrunnur (Mímir's well).
> >
> > Others here (llamanom, this is you) are better at "authentic"
> > Old Norse pronounciation or approximations thereof ... I'm just
> > a modern Icelander, and know little of such learned matters ...
> >
> > In modern Icelandic the pronounciation would be approximately:
> >
> > Óð - as "oath", but with the "th" of "father", not that of "thing".
> > Hræ - say "rye" and then add an "h" in front = "hrye".
> > Rir - "rir" with "i" as in bin.
> >
> > And of course all three r's need to be trilled in the Icelandic
> > manner.
> >
> > I guess the Icelanders of, say, the 11th century, would have
> > pronounced quite similarly, except that the value of "hræ"
> > would have been closer to "hruh", rather than "hrye".
> >
> > But as they always say, you really have to hear it in order
> > to know how to do it.
> >
> > Not much help, I'm afraid.
> >
> > Eysteinn
> >
>