--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Fernando Guerrero" <cualfer@...> wrote:Cleasby confuses me sometimes! As for Vallandi he says that itis "the land of the 'Welsh' or foreigners, especially in the sagas related to France." Me too! Not a very clear definition, is it? But I think there's a certain amount of vagueness in the word itself. The entry is probably trying to say that Valir (the inhabitants of Valland) is cognate with the English word Wales, but that in Old Norse prose, 'Valland' usually means "France". However, it's also been applied to Italy and (as Fritzner has it) Normany. What we call Wales is referred to as 'Bretland', the Welsh language Brezka. It's possible Valland somewhere refers to Wales, I don't know. Of course, a lot of the time, especially in legendary sagas and poems, it might not be possible to pin down an exact location. Ólafur Halldórsson in "Danish Kings and the Jomsvikings in the Longest Saga of Óláfr Tryggvason" glosses Valland as "France" in one place, but "Wales?" in the line: "Svá er sagt at Loðbrókarsynir hafi rekit mestan hernað í forneskiu um öll þessi lönd: England, Valland, Frakkland..." On the other hand, a note to an online Russian translation of Ragnarssona þáttr [ http://norse.net.ru/texts/ragnarssynir.html#_edn14 ], which contains the same list of countries, suggests "the French speaking part of Belgium"--or so I'm told; I haven't studied Russian. Hollander renders 'serki valrauða' in Atlakviða 4 as "Welsh sarks gory red", a scattergun style double translation, perhaps a gift of Roman mail-shirts [red with gold] might make a more likely present. The name Kjár in Völundarkviða and Hlöðskviða (in Hervarar saga) has been equated with Caesar. His people are the Valir in Hlöðskviða, his land Valland in Völundarkviða, but were these seen as Romans or the subjects of the Frankish Holy Roman Emperor? Did the authors even make such a distinction?Anyway, do you think that it may be realated to "vallari"pilgrim, traveller in a foreign land. I don't know, maybe, but the root seems to have a long history of positively connotations, implying wealth and fine things. The Tjurkö bracteate runic inscription uses WALHAKURNE = ON *valkorn, thought to be a kenning for gold. As you've probably heard, it´s even been suggested that Valhöll is really the Roman hall, exotic foreign luxiorious hall(?), the Colloseum(?), rathen than "the hall of the slain".Fritzner locates this land a bit better, I thik as being mostprobably Normandy. He renders it as "Nordfrankrige" giving the example of "hann vann þat ríki í Vallandi, er s´síðan var kallat Norðmandi" taken from Fsk. 210.So actually she was the daughter of the king of Normandy???????? A bit oddLegendary geography. Anything is possible! Not the oddest thing in this saga, anyway. That's still to come...I think it is "Sigurdr, the kinks son,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kinks :-) Sorry, could´t resist. Llama Nom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/GP4qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people. Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/ To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to: norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Daniel Bray Daniel Bray
“Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.” H. G. Wells