The Blood Eagle is I'm sure the actual pulling out of the
lungs (oh please) but it stands to reason (my reasoning) that in order to
reach the lungs from the back you have to attempt unskilled surgery and
get the ribs out the darned way. and for this reason, and perhaps for
"Effect" the Author chose to relate the whole grisly operation, I suggest
simply saying "They Blood Eagle'd Ella would have conveyed enough to most
people, but the Author chose to dip his quill pen into the ink a
couple more times so us weaker mortals were to be left in no doubt, what so
ever
Subject: [norse_course] "með landi"
along the coast? + "the eagle" (a grisly síðan)
Thanks Sarah!
That's great. It may
have been a misunderstanding, but I for one have learnt plenty from
puzzling about it. Interesting your lecturer's comment about the
two words for "coast" depending on which side you're on: með
sævi/landi.
Uh oh, here's a curious & gruesome example of síðan
from the tale of Ragnar's Sons (look away now!):
Létu þeir nú
rista örn á baki Ellu ok skera síðan rifin öll frá hrygginum með sverði,
svá at þar váru lungun út dregin.
Now they had the "eagle" cut in
Ella's back and then had all the ribs severed from his spine with a
sword, so that his lungs were pulled out there.
I don't know what
the experts make of this, but I always thought the blood-eagle *was* the
pulling out of the lungs. But this suggests it referred to some
preliminary marking or flaying action. Hmmm...
Llama
Nom
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen"
<sarahbowen@...> wrote: > Hi there! > >
Finally I can get back to you about "með landi" and "síðan". >
> Firstly, apologies. I got the wrong end of the stick about
"með landi". Here is the explanation my lecturer gives: >
> you wanted to know about Hann ferr nú síðan suðr með landi in
Audunar thattr. Literally, as you know, thie means 'He goes now
afterwards south with land', i.e. he follows the coast south. If
Audun were on land (we know he's not), the phrase would still work
gramatically, but would it make any useful sense? The 'land' goes in
all directions, and wouldn't be a feature that he would naturally
follow. He might follow a headland, for example (með nesi), or some
other geographical feature: he might well follow the sea(-coast)
(með sævi). I can't see how fara með landi could work if he were
travelling by land, and I certainly don't recall seeing it
anywhere. The phrase we have in Audun is not uncommon and always
occurs (as far as I know) during descriptions of sea-voyages. >
> And here is what he says about "síðan" > > I've never
seen "síðan" used spatially, and I'm quite confident in stating that
it's a purely > temporal adverb, used to link sequences of events one
after another. 'Afterwards' is an > adequate and indeed normal
gloss for it, although we'd most commonly render it with >
'then'. 'Subsequently' is a bit flowery, but might also do. Something
that establishes a > temporal sequence, anyway. 'Nu' (accent on the
u!) is here part of the style - immediacy > of the colloquial
present tense - rather than actually contributing to the ordering of the
> narrative's events. > > Hope this helps. >
Cheers, > Sarah. > > > > >
> ----- Original Message ----- > From:
llama_nom > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:25
AM > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback
Patricia: "með landi" along the coast? > > >
> > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah
Bowen" <sarahbowen@...> >
wrote: > > Great! Many thanks for this. I
shall discuss this with him and > let you know!
Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in this >
group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-) >
> > Hi Sarah, > > Careful
though, I could well be getting confused... But if you get
> a chance, could you also query síðan = "further"?
I can't find that > meaning in Zoega, only
"afterwards", "since", etc. The nearest I > can
find in Cleasby & Vigsusson is: lengi síðan "for a long time
> after". But I can't see any spatial
meanings. Gwyn Jones just > has "He now proceeded
south along the coast". > > If you have access to
"Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Reader" Revised > throughout by
Dorothy Whitlock, there's an interesting note in there
> pp. 229-230, on Ohthere's use of "eastweard" when he
seem to mean > south: "this agrees with Old Norse
usage: the south coast of Norway > from Lindesnes to
Oslo Fjord was known as _austr í Vík_, and > voyagers
travelling there, even from the north, speak of going >
east." (Though judging by Auðun they could add "south" as
well.) > > Apparently _í Vík austr_ can also be
used just to mean position, > without movement: >
> Haraldr hét einn hersir ríkr ok ágætr í Vík
austr > (Gríms saga loðinkinna) >
> ...which I suppose is a bit like _vestur þar í fjörðum_
in the very > first line of Auðun. >
> Llama Nom > > >
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen"
<sarahbowen@...> > wrote: >
> Great! Many thanks for this. I shall discuss this with him
and > let you know! Sometimes I reckon I learn
more from being in this > group than attending
lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-) > >
> > Kveðja, > >
Sarah. > > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: llama_nom >
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com >
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20
AM > > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun -
6/ feedback Patricia: "með > landi" along the
coast? > > > >
> > > > >
> > Like you, I thought "með landi" meant following the
coast but > > apparently here it is
"by land" or "over land". If someone can > give
> > me a convincing argument that this is
incorrect, please do and > I´ll >
> discuss it with my lecturer :-) > >
> > > > Hi
Sarah, > > > > Do you
(or your lecturer!) have any examples of it meaning "by
> > land"? I just typed the phrase
into Google, and found plenty of > >
quotes where it seems to be "[by sea] along the coast". Here's
> one > > with the verb
_fara_: > > > > En er
Haraldr konungr varð þessa tíðinda víss, þá dró hann her
> saman > > ok skaut
skipum á vatn; bjósk síðan með lið mikit ok ferr með
> landi > > suðr...
(Haralds saga ins Hárfagra, 36) > >
> > Harald is on his way to fight a sea
battle. I suppose it > doesn't >
> actually state that he is on board, but I found plenty more
with > > _sigla_ and other nautical
verbs & contexts. Cleasy & Vigfusson >
> have "sail along the shore" for: sigla með landi.
Also Gwyn > Jones > >
has "south along the coast" at this point in his translation
> > of "Audun and the Bear". And by
sea might be a more sensible > way to
> > travel in medieval Norway... But
I wonder if "með landi" could > >
theoretically also mean "[by land] along the coast", in the
> right > >
context? Or could it describle position with no >
motion: "situated > > along the coast"
(e.g. a cliff, or hills)? At Joshua 13,3, the >
> Icelandic Bible uses the phrase of a river, running along
the > border > > of
a country: frá Síhór, sem rennur fram með Egyptalandi að
> > austanverðu, til landamæra Ekron í
norðri - það telst með landi > >
Kanaaníta... > > > >
Llama Nom > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart
people. > > > >
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