Heill Hawk!

I will be very happy to give it a try!

>
>You have sometimes said that you find it
>more difficult to read modern Icelandic
>(e.g. a newspaper article) than old Icelandic
>(e.g. a chapter from a saga).

Yes, I find it easier to read sagas (e.g. Heimskringla)
than modern newspaper articles. Part of the reason is
that today more abstract words are used. Take a word
such as "idea" or "system". Those words are shared by
most European languages. Even Russian has many of these.
But not Icelandic. That is why you need to learn more
new words with Icelandic, then e.g. with Italian.
Hence Italian ought to be an easier language to learn
for Euroamericans than Icelandic. But it is not only
abstract words that make a difference, but also the
names for many of the items we use every day. If you
read about modern conditions in, say, a newspaper, there
are likely to be many such words.

The sagas, however, describe a simpler more elementary
world which also happens to be remarkably removed from
abstractions. (honour to him who can do without them!)

>I wonder where the difference lies; maybe it
>is mainly in the vocabulary needed to describe
>the modern world.

That was my idea too.

>
>To try and create an experiment I have taken
>two portions from MI-works (actually translations)

Good idea!

>that happen exclusively in the ancient world.
>I would like you to go through them and tell
>me how difficult they are for you. As a control
>factor in the experiment I have included a few
>lines from the Víglundarsaga.

I have already read them. The Viglundasaga excerpt
(call it no. 3) was certainly *not* the most difficult
passage. Whether it also was the easiest I am not sure
about. A lot also depends on how much I concentrate.
If I concentrate a lot, I find many words change shape
and twist themselves into familiar forms, so that I
generally understand more the longer I concentrate.

Also: I know the main features of the Oddysse
from before. The Viglundar saga I have however
not read. Lord of the Rings, I have also read
at one time. Knowing the story in a general way
helps, because it allows me to make better guesses.
I'll call the Odyssey excerpt no. 1, and the
Tolkien excerpt no. 2.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>
>The Odyssey. Assembly of the Gods.
>Conversation between Athena and Telemakkos.
>
>"Seg mér, Saunggyðja, frá hinum víðförla

It is a priestess (Saung=?) and she is asked to
report about a "widely travelled" man.

>manni, er hraktist mjög víða eptir það hann

hraktist? I'll think of it as "reka".
Then he "drifted" hither and thither, widely.
(mjög víða).

>hafði lagt í eyði hina helgu Trójuborg, þeim

So he drifted widely after he had laid to ruin (eyða)
the holy city of Troy.

>er sá borgir og þekti skaplyndi margra manna.

Here it became difficult. I keep thinking "er" = he.
(an interference from German) but that is of course wrong.
I'd say (after much thinking) that "er sá" = which.
borgir and þekti are verbs, 3rd person I'd say.
borgir = [he] protects and þektir=?? [he] covered?
skaplyndi = dative sg. cf. "skapnad"?
margra manna = of many men (genitive)

So, he is saying that Troy protected many men.
?

>Sá maður þoldi á hafinu margar hugraunir, þá

a little easier: who (Odyssevs) endured at sea (haf)
many [nightmares?].

>hann leitaði sjálfum sér lífs, og heimkomu

leitaði = he searched.
Here probably "he solved the problem of taking care of
himself".

>förunautum sínum; og fékk hann þó ekki að

They came home to their ??? naut= cows??

>heldur frelsað félaga sína, hvað feginn sem

"heldur" is difficult.
1)gjerne - heller - helst
2)from 'to hold'?
So it means that he did not succeed in keeping
his companiaons saved.
feginn = wellcome?

>hann vildi: því þeir tortýndust sökum illverka

don't know the vb tortýndust. (mediopassive)
sökum = search?

General sense: they (his companions) were led
in bad ways and did evil.

>sinna, er þeir fávísir átu naut Helíus

Maybe "naut" = cattle after all.
Because Helíus = the Sun. And these would
be the solar cows??? I vaguely remember something like that.

>Hýeríonssonar, sem þessvegna lét þá missa

So the Sun Helios must have punished them for messing
with his cattle. And *that* (þessvegna) was
the reason why none but he ever made it back home.

>heimkomudagsins. Seg mér einnig nokkuð af
>þessu, gyðja dóttir Seifs."

The day of homecoming. Tell me something
about this, priestess daughter of Zevs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So you see I (probably) managed to get the general sense.
But some parts leave me vague. Maybe you can analyze
and find the cause of my misapprehensions. NB I did this
without aids. I just jotted down comments
so that you'd be able to see what the difficulties were.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>
>
>The Silmarillion. The breaking of the siege
>of Angband. (Dagor Bragollach)
>
>"Í fararbroddi fyrir þessum glóðum elds fór

At the head (fararbroddi?) before this glow of
fire now went Glárung the golden (gilded?).

>nú Glárungur hinn gyllti, ættfaðir drekanna.

the father of all dragons (ætt = family)

>Hann hafði nú náð fullum illyrmisþroska og

He had now reached full evilwormspower??? and

>honum fylgdu á eftir Balroggarnir og að baki

after him came the Balroggs and behind them came
black armies of the Orcs in such quantities
(I decided mergrðr = quantity?)

>þeirra komu svartir herir Orkanna í þvílíkum
>mergðum að Noldar höfðu aldrei getað séð fyrir

that Noldar(a man?/several men pl.) had never
(getað > geta =?) got to see before nor imagined (mynðað)
(neitt=?) something like that.

>né ímyndað sér neitt þvílíkt. Og þeir ruddust

And they (rydda? no! probably from rodda= to talk)
talked about such (offorsi?) attack(?) on the walls
of the Noldar(a city? the men in the city?)
(virki=wall like Danevirke), where they were
to be found and (rufu? vb 3rd pl. pret) they
cried(?) such (umsátur?) cries/whines about
Angbönd?? (a woman?)....

>af þvílíku offorsi á virki Nolda, hvar sem þau
>var að finna og rufu þannig umsáturskvína um
>Angbönd[.]"
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here too were many words I didn't know.
The whole thing is therefore a bit vague,
though I did understand what it was about
in a general way, as yoou will have seen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>From Víglundar-Saga:
>
>"Þeir Víglundr ok Trausti liggja nú í valnum.

Viglund and Trausti and their men are now lying in
(valnum < valn?) ???wounded??? field.

>Raknar Víglundr við ok leitar at bróður sínum

(Don't know "rakna" vb, though it looks familiar)
Maybe: "Viglund comes to himself and finds his brother"

>ok finnr, at líf er með honum; ætlar hann þá

and finds that there is still life in him.
He then tries to get him help, for he does not
trust (enn=?) to carry him to the farms.

>at veita honum umbúð, því at hann treystist eigi
>enn at bera hann til byggða. Þá heyrði hann
>

Then he heard the sound of hooves against the ice.

íshöggvagang; var þar þá kominn faðir þeira

it was their father who had come with a sleigh.

>með sleða; lætr hann þá undir sæng sína í

There he lets his wounds be burnt (sæng?)
in an earthen house.

>jarðhús, ok var þar þá Ólof fyrir ok batt um

And there was Olof present and bandaged their wounds.

>sár þeira; váru þeir þar á laun ok urðu græddir

They were hidden (laun) there and were (graældir?)
nursed(?) to wholeness. And they were all reduced
and in bed for twelve months with their wounds.

>at heilu, ok lágu þeir alla tólf mánuði í sárum."
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think I spent less time on the Viglundr excerpt.
But here too there were crucial words I didn't know.
What saved it was the greater continuity of the story.
It was as if everything hung much better together.
And so I have a better sense of it. Even
if I missed valnum, raknar, veita, sæng (German
"versengen" = to burn) and grældir. Still, I feel
I was able to form a slightly more clear image
of no. 3. What do you think? In what piece did I make
the most serious/ridiculous/grave errors?
Note that everything was done directly from my head
to the screen via keyboard. No other aids were used.
(especially not the dictionary)
If I'd been allowed to use a dictionary, I would have
done a much better job. But now you get a much better
picture of how easily I grasp the texts as they stand
unmediated.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>I would be very interesting in hearing you compare
>the three extracts and tell us what you find difficult
>in each. This may be considerable work but I hope
>you'll have time:)

I could have put more time into it. But now I just went
through it at a natural pace. Let the errors speak
for themselves. The above is not a translation. But
only a description of how I perceived the text.

Kveðja, Ketill.