Re: bidet

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" wrote:
> >
> > This submerged Pyrenaic language, whose remains can be found in the
> > Aragonese and Bearnese Romances, as well as in Basque itself, has
> > been studied by linguists such as Elcock and García de Diego.
> >
> > > Obviously I have nothing against "submerged languages" (i.e.
> > > substrates), but [borondate (dropped by the interface - DGK)] is not
> > > some oddity in Basque. Its importance in
> > > ordinary speech suggests that it was adapted directly from Latin by
> > > bilingual speakers.
> > >
> > > [...]
> > > And during Christianization, the Basque-speaking area was larger
> than
> > > today, so again "Pyrenaic" could simply be extinct Basque dialects.
> >
> > But the thing is Pyrenaic was a *Romance* language, although possibly
> > with one or more substrates related to Basque. So calling it "Basque"
> as
> > you do is inappropriate.

I am not convinced that any separate Pyrenaic Romance is necessary, although your comments in another message indicate that Pyrenaic Basque should not be assigned to Roncalo-Souletin. Probably it belonged to the Navarrese group instead, extending eastward and making R-S an oasis of phonetic conservatism surrounded by Nav. dialects.

Since your Pyr. Rom. has phonological features characteristic of Basque (or at least of High Nav.) and requires a Basque or Vasconic substrate anyway, why not cut out the middleman and save? How un-Occamic to postulate two substrates when one will do!

> Also -ll- gives an alveolo-patatal /tç/ affricate in Pyrenaic (also
> found in West Asturian and similar to the retroflex stop of South
> Italian and Sardinian dialects) but not in Basque. This is why from
> Latin pullu- we've got Basque pullo (L, LN, Z), pollo (Z), pollu (Z)
> 'donkey' with a lateral palatal vs. potto (Bazt) 'colt, young horse',
> potxa (B) 'colt', potx (B, G) 'interjection for calling a young donkey',
> with /c/ <tt> and /tS/ .

I see no reason to refer Bazt. _potto_ to Lat. _pullu-_ when it could just as easily represent VL *puttu- resulting from contamination of _pullu-_ with *pu:ttu- 'offspring, child, young, etc.'; the latter underlies some Romance terms for 'whore' (from 'girl'), e.g. Sp. _puta_, It. _puttana_.

DGK