From: Etherman23
Message: 69726
Date: 2012-06-01
>The Hittite form (which lacks the *-trom suffix) means "to rip open". Several other languages either lack the *-trom suffix or have in non-exclusively. The root is missing from Indo-Iranian and Albanian. All this suggests that while the root was inherited the semantics were changed after the Anatolian split.
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > PIE has only a few words related to agriculture, domestication, and
> > metals which, IMO, points to a late paleolithic/early neolithic date. So
> > 7-8k BC seems reasonable.
> > >
> > > What do we mean by "the date of PIE"? 7-8k BCE is much too early for
> > the diaspora. If memory serves, Sherratt dates the appearance of
> > (ritual?) ard-marks under European barrows to 3500, give or take a
> > century. The diaspora must have followed the ard (i.e. light plough),
> > *h2arh3-trom. This is what makes 3-4k BCE reasonable for the breakup of
> > PIE.
> > >
> > There're been various attempts to date "PIE" based on words for horse
> > and wheeled vehicles, which are technological innovations like the ard.
> > Unfortunately, these attempts are intrinsically fallacious, because
> > these kind of words are mostly *Wanderwörter* from other languages
> > (the ones spoken by the inventors of these things).
>
> Since *h2arh3-trom has clear IE deverbative structure, it is hardly likely to be a Wanderwort from outside IE. When the heavy wheeled plough was developed (apparently in Rhaetia), it was the noun 'plough' which spread as an unanalyzable Wanderwort, not the verb 'to plough' as a basis for new deverbatives in the borrowing languages.