Re: Ligurian

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:

>
> Hamp read it as a burial poem, which it obviously is, as in Celtic, with Lepontic < Celtic. Combining our interpretations:
>
> Pelkui pruiam Teu karite, is^os kalite palam
> Belgu:i bru:yam De:wu: karite, is^os kalite pallam
> Belgo-for tomb/grave De:won- made, he raised (grave) stone
> De:won- made Belgo- the grave, he raised the stone
>

Belgu-i pruia-m Deu karite, is´os kalite palam

Devo- made (this) tomb for Belgo-, himself raised the stone.

The puzzling thing is the first sentence is OSV, while the second is SVO.

> Belgu:i the (d) of a (m) name < ~ Belgae
>

That's OK. However, in despite of some attempts, the ethonym Belgae doesn't look to be Celtic at all, but IMHO it could be related to the Gaulish ethnonym Volcae, from *uolco- 'hawk' (cfr. Welsh gwalch, Latin falco:) < *g^wel-k-.

> bru:yam (a) = *mount/cairn > tomb/grave; the dim. of * gWr.-x-yú+ < * gWL-x-xYú+ = heavy (stone) / etc.
> (see: gur = stone Alb; girí- = mt V S; girià\gìre: Lith; deirás \ de:rás Cret (f) = hill, deirós Hes, hupsídeiros = with high cliffs, boréa:s = *mt > north wind, hyperboréoi = inhabitants beyond Thrace G; )
>

I'd link this to Piamontese bruia 'bank, edge', related to Gaulish *brogi- 'territory; border' < Celtic *mrogi- (Delamarre). Loss of intervocallic -g- before front vowels /e, i/ is also found in Gallaecian (Western Hispano-Celtic).

> is^os = he < *sos , ì+ (clitic) ?
>

Possibly related to Latin ipse, ipsum, thus 'himself'.

> palam {pallam} (a) = stone (mt, grave , etc. ?)
> (see: all = rock/cliff OIr; pélla Hes G; pétra = rock, pétros = stone G; etc. )
>

As I said before, this can't be IE at all (much less Celtic), although it could be still distantly related to *pel-s- (the Greek forms don't belong here).

Given this evidence, it's unlikely Lepontic would be a Celtic language, although certainly is IE. As in the case of Ligurian, the confusion has been raised by the attestation of a variety of Gaulish in the area.

> The presence of p is not against this if the common Celtic change was p > pF ,
>

What does pF stand for?

> with most dia. pF > F > xW , etc.
>

I beg your pardon?