--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > > While I think many of the proposed (either Georgiev's or not)
> > > Pre-Greek IE etymologies are flawed, others might hold. For
> > > example, Greek eláia 'olive' < Mycenean *e-laiwa can be linked
> > > to a root *(s)leib- 'to slip, slippery' vel sim, although surely
> > > mediated by a non-IE language (e.g. Minoan). This calls for '
> > > prehistoric language replacement and/or contact processes.
> >
> > UEW
> >
> > liwa 'Sand' FU
> > ?[Finn. liiva 'breiartige Masse, Schleim; (SKES) muta, lieju;
> > Moor, Schlamm';
"bog, mud"
> > est. liiv (Gen. liiva) 'Sand, Kies'] |
> > wotj. S K, (Wichm.: FUF 15: 8) G luo 'Sand' |
> > syrj. S lia, V liva |
> > ostj. (469) Kaz. ļÅvÄ 'Schlamm (in Sümpfen auf dem
> > Seeboden, am Ufer); eine nicht begehbare Sumpffläche in der
> > Quellengegend kleiner Bäche'.
"mud (in swamps, on the bottom of the lake, at the bank; a non walkable swamp surface in the headwater region of small brooks"
> >
> > Wotj. o ~ syrj. a (< urperm. *a) sind wohl denom. Nominalsuffixe;
> > bei Wörtern, die in nichterster Silbe auf o/a auslauten, handelt
> > es sich im allgemeinen in den perm. Sprachen um Ableitungen.
> >
> > Das finn. Wort ist möglicherweise ein germanisches (< *slīva-)
> > oder ein baltisches (vgl. lett. glīve, litau. glývas) Lehnwort.
> >
> Incredible! The meanings 'sand', 'loess',
'Kies' is "gravel"
> etc. are semantically unrelated to 'grease', 'oil', etc.
You conveniently left out this part:
'Zur Bedeutungsentsprechung
"On the semantic correspondence"
finn. 'Moor, Schlamm', ostj. 'Schlamm' ~ est. usw. 'Sand'
"Finnish "bog, mud", Khanty "mud" ~ Estonian etc "sand"
vgl.
"cf."
finn. kulju 'Wasserpfütze, Lache, Quellader' ~ (dial.) 'Sandfeld, sandige Stelle im Acker'.
"Finnish kulju "puddle, small lake, aquifer" ~ (dial.) "sandy area. sandy spot in the field"
Im Wotj. fand ein sporadischer Lautwandel i > u (luo < *lio) statt.
Wotj. u (<*i), syrj. i und ostj. Š< FU *i sind durch den labialisierenden Einfluà des inlautenden *w zu erklären.'
plus all the wet correspondences. Don't do that, people might think you're cheating.
cf. also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap#Hot_processes
'Sand or pumice may be added to produce a scouring soap. The scouring agents serve to remove dead skin cells from the surface being cleaned. This process is called exfoliation. Many newer materials that are effective but do not have the sharp edges and poor particle size distribution of pumice are used for exfoliating soaps.'
plus Latin lavare etc, and
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lava
'1750, from Italian (Neapolitan or Calabrian dialect) lava "torrent, stream," traditionally from L. lavare "to wash" (see lave). Originally applied in Italian to flash flood rivulets after downpours, then to streams of molten rock from Vesuvius. Alternative etymology is from L. labes "a fall," from labi "to fall".'
plus alu- "decoctum" vel sim.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/65337
Besides
Pokorny
(s)leib- ,schlüpfrig, gleiten'
(s)leidh- ,schlüpfrig, gleiten'; Erweiterung von 3. lei-, slei-
sleub(h)- ,gleiten, schlüpfen', nur lat. und germ.; vgl. auch sleug^-,
(s)leug-, (s)leuk- ,schlucken'; z. T. Nasalpräsens (s)lu-n-gÅ, (s)lu-n-kÅ.
(s)leug^-, (s)leuk^- ,gleiten, schlüpfen'; nur germ. und balto-slov.; vgl. auch sleub-.
Apparently the 'sporadische Lautwandel' of Finno-Ugric is copied by IE.
'Die mit dem Syrj. verbundenen Wörter
ostj. (---) V ļįÅÅ¥ 'Speichel' "saliva", Kaz. ļÅÅ 'Geifer' "spittle" und wog. (...) KU loÅwiÅ¥ (wiÅ¥ 'Wasser' "water"), So. luÅ 'Geifer' "spittle" (...)
können aus lautlichen Gründen nicht hierher gestellt werden. '
cf. BTW Swedish spott-loska "glob of spittle", I can't find it in Hellquist.
> > An example of the odd practice of maintaining that a Finnish word
> > with cognates all over Uralic or Finno-Ugric is a loan from
> > Germanic.
> >
> This indicates these "Uralicists" are actually disguised IE-ists, or
> if you prefer, saboteurs from the IE field.
More exactly, the Uralicist tradition started among Swedish-speaking intellectuals in otherwise Finnish-speaking and then Russian-ruled, earlier Swedish-ruled 19th century Finland.
Torsten