From: Torsten
Message: 69379
Date: 2012-04-19
>Yes, if you knew it was borrowed from an IE language. But you don't. The proper way to state your proposal is to say it's a proposal which might be true if Georgiev's Pelasgian existed and if had ph for PIE p.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > You didn't answer the question. How is Georgiev's Pelasgian
> > relevant to pséphas etc?
> >
> As I said before, this has to do with the stop system of
> Thraco-Pelasgian, which according to Georgiev was similar to the
> Germanic one in what series I was voiceless aspirated. So when Greek
> /ph/ corresponds to /p/ in other IE languages, this would indicate a
> Pelasgian borrowing.
> > Don't forget that a 'link', when implying borrowing in twoWe're talking psephas/knephas/dnophos/gnophos/zophos now, right? You didn't say anything other than 'link'. How are we supposed to know what you mean when you couch your proposals in vague terms?
> > languages A and B means either 1. A -> B, 2. B -> A or C -> A, B.
> >
> Who said "borrowing"? IMHO this is common inheritance. To me, IE and
> Altaic stem from the same phylum.
> > > But IMHO GreekActually what I posited was *tÅ- from *tVÅ- "darkness"
> > > ps- in pséphas, pséphos 'dark' must derive from a
> > > *labialized* sibilant *ts^W which would be reflected as Etruscan
> > > f- in *favi- (cfr. Latin favissa 'crypt' vel sim) and *k´s- in
> > > Indo-Iranian *k´sep- 'night'.
> >
> > I can't follow your 'must'. I assume, since you don't state your
> > reason, that you think assibilation in a nasalised palatalized
> > cluster is impossible. But as I showed you it happened in Polish.
> >
> Only that this process would hardly explain Greek ps-.
> > > The root can be analyzed as compound whose first member would beSo words are related either by way of borrowing or by common inheritance. Thank you for enlightening me.
> > > cognate to NWC *(p@-)dz^W@ 'dusk, evening'. On the other hand,
> > > Greek knéphas 'dark, dnóphos, gnóphos 'darkness' would be
> > > cognate to the IE word for 'night' *nekW-t-, including reduction
> > > of the labiovelar.
> >
> > And cluster reduction *dhn- -> *n- as I proposed. But see above.
> >
> From the NEC cognate I'd prefer *Hn- > *n-. However, in Pre-Greek
> the initial laryngeal evolved in a different way, giving a velar /k/
> or /g/, the latter palatalized in /d/.
>
> > > This root would be ultimately related to NEC *h\nitts^wV 'night,
> > > evening'.
> >
> > Related how?
> >
> Either by way of borrowing (in the case the languages involved
> aren't genetically related) or common inheritance (otherwise).