Re: Jordanes

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

>
> Am 09.11.2010 02:09, schrieb Torsten:
> >
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Am 07.11.2010 22:40, schrieb Torsten:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@> wrote:
> >
> > > I am not aware about Paria and Baza as beeing Thracian names.
> > > The other names which are mentioned here do not appears to be
> > > Dacian or Thracian either(Candac, Alanoviiamuth, Andag, Andela,
> > > Amali, Gunthigis), probalby they are Sarmatic (Alans, Roxolans)
> >
> > Detschew has both Paris and
> > 'πάρος m. PN. -
> > IG 9, 2, 287 α aus Gomphi, Thessalien,
> > 10: πάρος Μουσαίου (Freigelassener).
> > IGRP 1, 98 aus Rom: παρος σαβαζίω, δω~ρον.
> > Bechtel PN 551 identifiziert den PN mit dem Inselnamen πάρος.
> > Wegen -parus in Zi-parus halte ich ihn dagegen für Parallelform
> > von πάρις.'
> > as Thracian names. And no one claimed Baza was a Thracian name. As
> > for the other names, Gunthigis looks Germanic, the rest don't, but
> > Gothic names often don't look Germanic.
>
> Paria is not Paris and not Paros. Paris and Paros are both several
> time to find in Dacian/Thracian space, but never Paria.

I know.

> Maybe this is a corupted form of Paris or Paros.

Possible.

>
> > > > Diurdanus
> > >
> > > The form Diur- shold be an younger one, the initial form has
> > > been "dur-" as in Durazis, Durpaneus, etc.
> >
> > I don't believe that. Dur- -> Diur- doesn't make sense as a
> > phonetic deveopment.
>
> how do you mean it please?

dur- -> djur would happen if
-u- -> -ju-, but we don't see that elsewhere in Detschew's examples,
or
-d- -> -dj-, but we don't see that elsewhere in Detschew's examples,

> >
> > > The change "du>diu>3u" does not shows any phonetic troubles if
> > > the "J" was pronounced as a consontant like in Joe.
> >
> > Yes it does, du > dju doesn't make sense.
>
> in my opinion. it makes sense if the change happened in Dacian
> language.

That's two different things.
And whether it happened in the Dacian language is what we discussed in the first place, so invalid argument.

I'd rather connect diur- with zur- in
'Ζουρης, Ζυρις.

â€" 1. KDP 64 aus Araplar, Bez. Popovo:
Σαικιθης Ζουρηους;
420 aus Amphipolis: (dat.) [Ζ]ουρει.
ΙΡΕ 1, 2 aus Tyras, 23: Κ[α]ι~σαρ Ζουρη `άρχων.

â€" 2. AB 23, 1926, 131 Nr. 28 aus Rodosto:
[Σ]ημονίδης Ζυριδο(υ) wo m. E. eher Ζυριδο(ς) zu lesen ist.

Sicher Dublettform von Σουρα, Surus, Συρος.
Vgl. hier den PN Zura.'

> >
> > He says he wants the Dardani to be connected with
> > 'δαρζαλας, δερζελας, bzw. δερζαλατης GN;
> > δαρζαλεια Festspiele zur Ehre des Gottes Derzelas.'
> >
>
> Well... Dardanus with Derzelas.. maybe there is a connection, maybe
> not... I think -danus and -zelas are hard to be brought to the same
> root ( if they are supposed to derive from the same root ):

He probably wants to derive from a root *dard-, with variant *darz- before front vowel
(*dard-e- -> *dard-je- -> *dardj-e- -> *darz-e-)
with two different suffixes, *-an- and *-el-, vel sim.

Another theory he mentions is that it's related to
Albanian dardhë "pear tree" (because that's where they lived),
myself I proposed (I think) a connection with the
Greek/Norse darr(-aþ/uþ)- "spear",
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66364
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66389

but being a nice Scandinavian, I'm willing to compromise, so I propose it means "pearwood spear", which would be rather expensive and status-enhancing.

Or else, rather, the spear connection had some cultic significance.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66472


Torsten