Re: Ktistai

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

>
>
> Am 12.10.2010 21:41, schrieb Torsten:
>
> >
> > Detschew
> > Die thrakischen Sprachreste:
> >
> > κτίσται ehelos lebende Thraker [Thracians living unmarried].
> > - Strab. 7,3,3: λέγει δ`ε το`υς Μυσο`υς ´ο Ποσειδώνιος κα`ι
> > `εμψύχων `απέχεσθαι κατ` ε`υσέβειαν, δι`α δ`ε του^το κα`ι
> > θρεμμάτων• μέλιτι δ`ε χρη~σθαι κα`ι γάλακτι και τυρω,~ ζω~ντας
> > καθ` ´ησυχίαν, δι`α δ`ε του~το καλει~σθαι θεοσεβει~ς τε και
> > καπ­νοβάτας• ε`ι~ναι δέ τινας τω~ν Θρα,κω~ν ο´ί χωρ`ις γυναικ`ος
> > ζωσιν, ´ο`υς κτίστας καλει~σθαι, `ανιερω~σθαί τε δι`α τιμ`ην
> > κα`ι μετ`α `αδείας ζη~ν.
> > "Poseidonius goes on to say of the Mysians that in accordance
> > with their religion they abstain from eating any living thing,
> > and therefore from their flocks as well; and that they use as
> > food honey and milk and cheese, living a peaceable life, and for
> > this reason are called both "god-fearing" and "capnobatae"; and
> > there are some of the Thracians who live apart from woman-kind;
> > these are called "Ctistae," and because of the honour in which
> > they are held, have been dedicated to the gods and live with
> > freedom from every fear"
> > Der Versuch Ficks, Die ehemal. Spracheinheit 419, die Glosse mit
> > lit. skaistás „hell", abg. čistъ „rein" zu verbinden, läßt sich
> > sprachlich nicht rechtfertigen. Es kommt noch hinzu, daß aus dem
> > Kontext die Bedeutung „die (von dem Umgang mit Frauen)
> > Getrennten, Geschiedenen" zu erwarten wäre.
> > [Fick's attempt, Die ehemal. Spracheinheit 419, to connect the
> > gloss with Lith. skaistás "clear", OBg. čistъ "clean, pure",
> > cannot be justified linguistically. Besides that, from the
> > context one would expect the sense „those that are separated
> > (from dealing with women)".


>
> regardless if "kt" is the greek form for a presumable "*kY", the
> important part apears to be the mention that these ktistai where
> called as such jut because they lived without women..

Yes, that's Detschew's point too. But as I said, since Latin scindō and OE skaidan with exactly that sense of separateness deviate phonetically no more from either ktistai or the cognates of Slavic čistъ than the pre-Greek cognate sets presented by Beekes, I don't think we need to posit a new root here.

> If yes, then
> this "kty-stai" there is maybe a compositum where the first part is
> something regarding "without women" and the second part "living,
> beeing, stay, remain", something like "unmarried-stay" ...

I'm not convinced.

> Yet, we have a couple of thracian words, but we are almost allways
> missing the meaning of these words thus, the whoke matter is hard
> to be brought on a hard ground....

You should get Detschew's book.


Torsten