Re: Ktistai

From: Alexandru Moeller
Message: 66756
Date: 2010-10-12

Am 12.10.2010 21:41, schrieb Torsten:

>
> Detschew
> Die thrakischen Sprachreste:
>
> κτίσται ehelos lebende Thraker [Thracians living unmarried].
> - Strab. 7,3,3: λέγει δ`ε το`υς Μυσο`υς ´ο Ποσειδώνιος κα`ι `εμψύχων
> `απέχεσθαι κατ` ε`υσέβειαν, δι`α δ`ε του^το κα`ι θρεμμάτων• μέλιτι δ`ε
> χρη~σθαι κα`ι γάλακτι και τυρω,~ ζω~ντας καθ` ´ησυχίαν, δι`α δ`ε του~το
> καλει~σθαι θεοσεβει~ς τε και καπ­νοβάτας• ε`ι~ναι δέ τινας τω~ν Θρα,κω~ν
> ο´ί χωρ`ις γυναικ`ος ζωσιν, ´ο`υς κτίστας καλει~σθαι, `ανιερω~σθαί τε
> δι`α τιμ`ην κα`ι μετ`α `αδείας ζη~ν.
> "Poseidonius goes on to say of the Mysians that in accordance with their
> religion they abstain from eating any living thing, and therefore from
> their flocks as well; and that they use as food honey and milk and
> cheese, living a peaceable life, and for this reason are called both
> "god-fearing" and "capnobatae"; and there are some of the Thracians who
> live apart from woman-kind; these are called "Ctistae," and because of
> the honour in which they are held, have been dedicated to the gods and
> live with freedom from every fear"
> Der Versuch Ficks, Die ehemal. Spracheinheit 419, die Glosse mit lit.
> skaistás „hell", abg. čistъ „rein" zu verbinden, läßt sich sprachlich
> nicht rechtfertigen. Es kommt noch hinzu, daß aus dem Kontext die
> Bedeutung „die (von dem Umgang mit Frauen) Getrennten, Geschiedenen" zu
> erwarten wäre.
> [Fick's attempt, Die ehemal. Spracheinheit 419, to connect the gloss
> with Lith. skaistás "clear", OBg. čistъ "clean, pure", cannot be
> justified linguistically. Besides that, from the context one would
> expect the sense „those that are separated (from dealing with women)".


regardless if "kt" is the greek form for a presumable "*kY", the
important part apears to be the mention that these ktistai where called
as such jut because they lived without women..If yes, then this
"kty-stai" there is maybe a compositum where the first part is something
regarding "without women" and the second part "living, beeing, stay,
remain", something like "unmarried-stay" ... Yet, we have a couple of
thracian words, but we are almost allways missing the meaning of these
words thus, the whoke matter is hard to be brought on a hard ground....


Alex