Res: [tied] Re: Herakles, Rudra and the centaurs: PIE source?

1) *kentr,+tawros for kentauros doesn't seem plausible. It doesn't help to understand the meaning of centaurs. Bull-goader?
2) I think Greek <kentauros> and Indo-Iranian *G(W)anDarvas could be related, although not necessarily through PIE source. If IE, we could guess an Anatolian source? Hittite *kantaruwash ?
3) I guess that <kentauros> and <satyros> are cognates.
4) How about Kheiron's etymology? Linking it to <kheir> "handa" seems unlikely. If this name has a PIE origin, I'd guess *g^Hers- as in Latin hirtus, hirsutus, hircus, horror; or g^Hwe:r- "beast", cf. dialectal Greek phe:r "beast, centaur" (cf. werewolf?, if *wer- < *waer-?)

JS Lopes

De: stlatos <stlatos@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 8 de Outubro de 2010 15:34:18
Assunto: [tied] Re: Herakles, Rudra and the centaurs: PIE source?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:
>
> Rudra followed the stellar deer (i.e. Prajapati, who in the guise of a deer
>

If you're asking if centaur : Av gandar&wa-, then I'd say it's not likely (the presence of -w- not -v- in Av is due to its IE origin (not a non-IE substrate, as some incompetent linguist might have said); probably < * gWemYd*H-x-r.wó+ 'moving (in) the deep (water)' or a similar form (name for creature(s) like nixie, nicor, keplian), probably by X-RG > XR-G > aR-G, with r > r& at the end of a syllable (compare * gWmYbH-x-r.ó+ > gabhi:rá- deep' S; * gWmYbH-x-r.ós > * gW_mYbH-_-r.öX > * gumbHúr.o: > * gumbút.o > gut.úmbo Nur A;).

On the other hand, the most likely et. is centaur < *kentr,+tawros 'bull-goader' (by dissimilation) < *kentor+ < *kentetor+ (by haplology). This probably referred to invading mounted cattle herdsman/warriors (Hellenes) who scared older inhabitants of Greece as they took over. The change of historical enemies of stories > magical creatures of myths is similar to the creation of the Kong Kerry, etc., in England.