Re: Herakles, Rudra and the centaurs: PIE source?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:

>
> Rudra followed the stellar deer (i.e. Prajapati, who in the guise of a deer
> followed his daughter, but Shiva cut off his head which became the
> constellation called Mrigashira i.e. the deer-head). There's variations of this
> legend with Brahma replacing Prajapati, and this can be trace back to Varuna or
> Dyaus. The father tried to violate his own daughter, the goddess Samdhya
> "Twilight", who fled changed into a doe.
>

This myth comes primarily from poetical or explanatory descriptions of 'dawn then sun' = 'dawn (goddess) chased by sun (god)', parallel to many cultures' stories about sun and moon, stars fleeing from a hungry sun, etc.

The characters are often switched and stories intermingled with that of a snake stealing the water (goddess), making the return of dawn (goddess) result in the return of water, etc., otherwise unexplained (or attempted to be explained in unconvincing and unusual ways).

> There are many parallels to moments of Herakles' career, specially linked to
> centaurs:
>

> Could Kheiron be a ambrosia-keeper as the Persian Gandar&ba
> ?
>

If you're asking if centaur : Av gandar&wa-, then I'd say it's not likely (the presence of -w- not -v- in Av is due to its IE origin (not a non-IE substrate, as some incompetent linguist might have said); probably < * gWemYd*H-x-r.wó+ 'moving (in) the deep (water)' or a similar form (name for creature(s) like nixie, nicor, keplian), probably by X-RG > XR-G > aR-G, with r > r& at the end of a syllable (compare * gWmYbH-x-r.ó+ > gabhi:rá- deep' S; * gWmYbH-x-r.ós > * gW_mYbH-_-r.öX > * gumbHúr.o: > * gumbút.o > gut.úmbo Nur A;).

On the other hand, the most likely et. is centaur < *kentr,+tawros 'bull-goader' (by dissimilation) < *kentor+ < *kentetor+ (by haplology). This probably referred to invading mounted cattle herdsman/warriors (Hellenes) who scared older inhabitants of Greece as they took over. The change of historical enemies of stories > magical creatures of myths is similar to the creation of the Kong Kerry, etc., in England.