--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> de Vries
> 'súgr m. 'sea' (poet.), lit. 'the sucking (one)'
> >
> > What "these words"? I am precisely speaking of cases where there
> > AREN'T variants with nasals, e.g. "suck".
>
> Da. synke (< *sinkW- < *senkW- ?< *sunkW- < *sunk-; sank, sunket
> class III, but cf Sw. sjunka, sjönk, sjunkit, class II,
> recategorized or ?) means
> 1. "to sink" (intr.)
> 2. "to swallow" (tr. and intr.)
>
> > (And I reiterate that "swamp" does not mean "suck", so I will not
> > assume that to be cognate.)
>
>
de Vries
'sog n. 'suction, slipstream, undertow, sea, ship' (poet),
Icel. Norw. sog, MDa. dial. sug 'suction, gust of wind',
cf Faroese. sova 'depression(?) between the two lowest passages(?)'
...
MLG. soch 'sucking',
MDutch soch also 'mother's milk',
Dutch zog 'sog, 'mother's milk',
MHG soc, suc 'sap',
cf OE sogeða 'sip'
cf súga
Sogn m. ON. 'Sognefjord', also 'sea' (poet.),
cf. Sw. sugn 'water fall'.
Named from the suction of the water
(...),
goes with súga.
...
súga, sjúga st. v. 'suck',
Icel. súga, Faroese súgva, MNorw. Sw. suga, MDa. suge.
> Orkn. sook 'to dry' (Marwick 17.3).
cf. backsook 'outgoing surf wave' (ibd. 8); >
Shetl. suk 'suck', afsuk 'ebb'.
OE OS OHG su:gan.
Lat. sucus 'sap',
Lit. sunkiù, súñkti 'let run off, percolate(?)',
Latv. su:z^u, su:kt 'suck'.
cf. sog, sogn and súgr.
Besides forms with g there are others with k, cf.
OE su:can, Engl. suck, and
OE socian, Engl. soak, cf.
Lat. su:go 'suck', OIr. su:gim 'suck',
OPr. suge 'rain'.
The IE roots *seuk, *seug are deriv. of *seu, *su 'squeeze out' ...'
And see above.
This is the closest match I could find for Uralic
UEW:
'sun,e 'summer' (<- *'a mild season, thaw; thaw (of snow)') U
Finn. suvi (Gen. suven) 'summer;
(dial.) thaw;
(dial.) south (wind);
(SKES dial.) (often) 'springtime';,
suviyö 'summer night'
(> Saami N suv(v)-iggjå -j- 'each of the three »summer nights«');
Est. suvi (Gen. suve) 'Sommer' |
Saami
N sâgn,â- -n,-
'be thawed, got rid of adhering ice or snow, become ice free',
K (...) Kld. se:n,n,a-, Not. sèn,n,o- 'melt off, thaw",
N sân,âs -gn,- 'thawed, free from ice or snow' |
Khanty
(1062) V O lon,, Vj. jon,, DN ton, 'Sommer', V lon,im, Vj. jon,im 'snow free place',
Kaz. Lon,am:
L. xans^an,a jis 'became snow free in places (the ground)' |
Mansi
(...) TJ KU toj,
(...) LU tuj,
(...) So. tuw 'summer',
(...) P tuj&G, So. tuji 'in summer' ||
Samoyed
Nenets
(458)O ta:P, P tan? 'summer',
Sjo. tan,a: 'it is aftersummer, is bare (the ground in early winter, when the snow is melted)';
Jen. Ch. B tô 'summer', Ch. tojio, B toe 'summerly',
(...) tonoju 'in summer';
Nganasan tan,a 'summer';
Selkup
Ta. taang, Ke. tagi, N tagî, tagi, taî,
(...) Tur. tan,i;
Kamassian tan,a, tan,&^;
Koib.(Beitr. 29) t´a?ga; mot. (ebd.) d´a?gan;
Karag. (Janh., SW 148) daná.
The irregularity of the vowel of the first syllable in Saami is not without parallels; a *u in the protolanguage many times corresponds also to Saami â, cf Collinder, CompGr. 162. ...'
Note: a/u alternation badly accounted for.
see also at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/65616
'sula 'melted, thawed; melt, thaw' FU
Finn.
sula 'unfrozen, soft, fluid; pure',
sulaa- 'become fluid, melt; make fluid';
Est.
sula 'soft, loose; fluid, flowing, melting, thawing; pure, unmixed',
sula- '(intr.) melt, thaw' |
Mord. (s-Laute 19)
E M sola 'unfrozen, (...) melted',
E M sola- 'thaw, met' |
Mari KB s^&le-, U B s^ule- |
Udmurt
(Bor.) sil-sil 'soft state of an object (when cooking eg meat),
(URS) silmi- 'overcook (eg of potatoes); destroy, be dissolved |
Komi
S sil, P siv, PO søl 'unfrozen, molted',
S sil- P siv-, PO søl-'(intr.) melt, thaw' |
Khanty (1106)
V lol& 'unfrozen',
Vj jol& 'id. (eg ground), snowy and without ice',
DN tat& 'thawed, melted; unfrozen ground (under the frozen layer)',
O lal 'soft-edged',
(OL 57) V lola-, Vj. jola-, DN tat-, O lal- '(intr.) melt' |
Mansi (MTr.) LM tal-vo:j 'melting fat' (...),
...
TJ tal-, LU ta:la:n- 'melt',
(...) K N tål-,
(...) So. tol- |
Ung.
olvad- '(intr.) melt, (intr.) thaw, perish, (metal) be melted',
olvaszt- '(tr.) melt, pour out (fat)'.'
Note: No integration possible of these two entries in UEW, for some reason.
So it seems the *saN- thing was not so much a swamp as a melt water lake. The plot thickens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_salt
Salt lakes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_lake_%28geography%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltern
That *sal- "island" thing had me worried. How to connect it to salt etc? But then...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A6s%C3%B8
http://maps.google.dk/maps?hl=da&tab=il
http://www.sydesalt.dk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brine
It turns out that in the flat waterlogged area Rønnerne in the south of Læsø the ground water reaches 13% salinity only 2 meters down. The brine was heated in open pans.
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsydning_p%C3%A5_L%C3%A6s%C3%B8
'That it is possible at all to seethe salt on Læsø is due to the fact that the island has saline groundwater. In other words a natural rise in the concentration of salt in the groundwater immediately below the surface. The conditions why this so-called saline groundwater exists at all, is a research project in itself. The saline groundwater exists on the island's southern coastal meadows, named Rønnerne which are inundated by seawater during winter. Sea water penetrates down through the upper layers of sand, but is stopped at 1-2 m depth by the layer of yoldia clay which makes up the island's underground. In spring, when seawater retreats, Rønnerne are exposed and the seawater, stored in the now exposed layers of sand, evaporates. This process is repeated year after year, increasing the salt concentration in the remaining groundwater slowly, and after a number of years it reaches a salt concentration of 12-16% (ordinary seawater usually has a salt concentration of about 3%).
Another source of the saline underground is the plant limonium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonium
that in some areas of Rønnerne can be found in large numbers. This plant has - like eg Armeria maritima
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armeria_maritima
- the feature that it can absorb salt and excrete salt in glands on the stems. In the soil layer under areas with these salinity therefore rises proportionately.'
'
http://tinyurl.com/yevza5s
http://tinyurl.com/y8jb6hd
'In the dune slacks overgrowing with willows and reeds is a problem.'
ie Sal-ix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salix
so that's where that's connected. It's salt-tolerant.
Torsten