From: Torsten
Message: 65984
Date: 2010-03-17
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
And in English:
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
>
BTW, from Møller VISW
d1 k^-nk- "hang" (< Proto-IE k^-n-g-, intr. k^ánag-),
Got. OHG. ha:han OE ho:n trans. "hang",
intr. OHG hange:n MHG hangen ON hanga OE hongian "hang",
Sanskr. s^an,ka-te: "(suspensus est, >) wavers, doubts, is worried",
s^an,ká : "doubt, worry, fear",
s^an,kita- "worried for, apprehensive of",
Lat. cunctor "wavers, hesitates",
ON hæ:tta "jeopardize, risk, dare",
(with a:) "let be dependent of something";
: IE k^-n-g- (< pre-IE-Semitic k^-n-G.-) in
OHG henchen MHG henken "execute";
this k^-ng-
= Semit. s^-n-k.- (k. < Proto-Semit. G.),
Arab. s^anak.a "ligavit, alligavit,
he bound (the camel with the s^ina:k.),
he curbed (the camel) by means of his zima:m (or nose-rein),
he bound (the head of the beast) to the head of a tree or to an
elevated peg so that his neck became extended,
he suspended (the waterskin) to a peg",
(post-classical s^anak.a > Modern Arab.
s^enek. "he hanged (him) by the neck till he died",
mis^na-k.atuN > Modern Arab. mes^nak.a "a gallows",
part. mas^nu:k.uN "put to death by being hanged"),
intr. s^anik.a "he became attached (to a thing)",
Syr. senek. "indiguit", aph. "indigere fecit, induxit, coegit",
Arab. s^anak.uN "the heart's longing for a thing",
sina:k.uN "any cord by which a thing is suspended, the suspensory
cord of a waterskin".'
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/45244
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/45248
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/45262
If this comparison refers to something real, it means that the
*xanx- etc root means not "hang" as in "suspend in the air" but
primarily "tie (to something)" (note that hangings were first
done by bending a flexible tree down to the ground, tie the
culprit by the neck to the tree and then letting go of the tree).
That means that xanx-ist- etc might have been a paraveredus, a
spare horse, led by a rope (whatever the last element of the
composite is. Why 'spare horse'? Seems that was the only way to
think of a horse minus man in the saddle, in times of war.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/49417
UEW:
'c^onc^e "line (of the net)" FU
? Saami (Lind.-Öhrl.) tsuotse
"extremity of fishermen's dragnets or outmost part",
L suohttse:: suohttse: (stielas)
"the piece (stielas) of a dragnet placed at the end of both wings",
K (T. I. Itk., WbKKlp. 639) Kld. tsu:ot,t,s,,
Ko. Not. tsu&^ot,´t,s,E
"knot between the upper end of the dragnet and the outmost line (made up by two loops)"
(> Finn. suotsa "loop connecting the line of the net with the other line or with the line of the dragnet") |
? Khanty (952)
V c^on.c^&G, DN c^unc^&, Ni. s^uns^& "rope (V DN Ni.), line (DN)".
Khanty &G is a derivation suffix.
On the Saami-Khanty semantic corresponce cf.
Finn. siula "outer part of the net" ~
Saami L siulo- "line made out of sinews";
Swed.-Dan. garn "yarn" ~ "net".
Because of the geographically distant relationship the set is uncertain.
Toivonen (FUF 19:114) places
Finn. huntu "women's head shawl"
here. Phonetically this is irreproachable, but it should be rejected for semantic reasons'.
And the -est- part would then have been the Venetic -est-
adjectivising suffix.
This is out on limb, but most of what I write is anyway, so what the heck:
Saddles have horns to fasten things to, cf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle
http://saddlezone.com/html-top/saddle_history.htm
Since the idea is new to the Roman in the 1st cent BCE, I suspect Sarmatian provenance.
Any one who googles 'ponying' (seems to be the technical term) and 'saddle horn' will discover that extra horses are lead by looping the guide rope over the saddle horn, not tying it.
Leading as many as four horses, you'd need up to four horns, or?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_military_tactics_and_organization
'Each Mongol soldier typically maintained between 3 or 4 horses.'
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/mongols/conquests/khans_horses.pdf
'Genghis Khan understood the importance of horses and insisted that his troops be solicitous of their steeds. A cavalryman normally had three or four, so that each was, at one time or another, given a respite from bearing the weight of the rider during a lengthy journey.'
One wonders what else the four horns of the Sarmatian(?) saddle could be used for. So, cf. here the entry in UEW following the one I already quoted:
'c^uc^æ 'bar, rafter' U
? Saami (Toiv.: FUF 19:89) L sos:o
"the middle rafter in the rack on which the dragnet is suspended to dry" |
mord. (Ravila: JSFOu. 61:92)
E c^oc^ko, (IE) M s^oc^ka, z^oc^ka "trunk, beam" ||
Samoyed
Selkup
Ta. c^uods^o, tooto "bridge",
Ke. coodsa, coodso "rafter",
Ke. coods "bridge" id.,
(Donn.: MSFOu. 67:74) TaU totä, Ty. c^o:c^ "rafter for drying fish".
Mord. ko and ka are denom. nominal suffixes.
The s in auslaut in Saami s irregular. It is possible that *c became s under the assimilatory influence of the inlaut consonant. Also because of the infrequent occurrences it is uncertain whether the Saami word belongs here.
For phonetic reasons the
Finn. töntö (Gen. tönnön)
"rafter for supporting or blocking, support, locking bar"
(...) erroneously assigned here does not belong in this context.
Some researchers (Wichmann: ibd.; Setälä: ibd.; Beitr. 136 with ?) placed the Perm. and Samoyed words together with
Saami N cå3'3å -33- "steady rock, ledge vel sim., where you can get a foothold on a pile of rocks or on a precipitous rockface or in a river".
That is not acceptable, for phonetic and semantic reasons.
Udmurt 3^a3^i and Komi 3^a3^ "shelf, set of shelves" (...) do not belong here, for phonetic (Komi-Udmurt a < *ä) and semantic reasons."
It's tempting to postulate some connection between
c^onc^e "line (of the net)" and
c^uc^æ "support (for hanging things on)"
which would be outside of Uralic (or UEW would have claimed it).
And now the IE version.
Pokorny:
'2. k^a(:)k-, nasalised k^ank- "branch, twig, peg";
k^a(:)kha: f. "curved branch, plough".
Sanskrit s´á:kha: f. "branch" (: Got. ho:ha, Arm. c.ax);
s´ákala- m. n. "chip, splitter, log, chipping, piece"
(: Lit. s^akaly~s);
s´an,kú- m. "nog, peg, pole"
(: ChSl. so,kU, Welsh cainc, ON ha:r);
s´akti- f. "spear" (: OIr ce:cht);
Arm. c.ax "twig", perhaps loan from
Pers. s´a:x id., and this from
Sansk. s´a:kha:;
acc. to Meillet Esquisse 3 36, Slave commun 2 23 f. rather from
PIE *k^sa:kh-;
because of the sense uncertain
Alb. thekë "frazzle, tip", cf. still the same sense of
Norw. hekel "frazzle" under *keg-;
Welsh cainc (*kanku:, cf. the u-stem Sansk. s´an,ku-), pl. cangau,
MWelsh canghau "branch",
MIr. ge:c, nir. géag "branch" (with secondary media in anlaut),
with -sk-suffix
gallo-rom. *gascaria (French jachère) "fallow land",
literally "ploughland", Hubschmied Vox Rom. III 1233;
OIr ge:scae "twig, branch";
with t- suffix
OIr ce:cht "plough"
(probably as *kank-to- most closely related to Sansk. s´akti-);
Got. ho:ha "plough" (= Sansk. s´ákha:),
OHG huohili "aratiuncula";
nas. ON ha:r "oarlock" (*hanha, Finn. loan),
hoe:ll "peg, log" (*hanhila-);
Lit. s^akà "branch" (ablaut. with Sansk. s´á:kha:),
s^a:ke. "fork",
s^akaly~s "splitter" (: Sansk. s´ákala-),
s^aknìs, apr. sagnis f., Latv. sakne "root";
Lit. s^akarnis "branching",
Latv. saka:rnis "root end";
ChSl. so,kU "surculus";
Slav. socha "baton" (ChSl. usw.) "hook, plough (Russ.),
Gabelstange" (Pol.),
Pol. rozsocha "forked branch",
ChSl. posochU m. "baton".
WP. I 335, Trautmann 297 ff., Specht Idg. Dekl. 55, 254;
cf. under
ke(n)g-, ke(n)k- "peg, hook" S. 537 f. and
k^enk-, k^onk- "wawer, hang", S. 565.'
keg-, keng- and kek-, kenk- "peg to hang things on, hook, handle";
also "be pointed";
cf. the similar k^ak-, k^ank-; and k^enk-, k^onk-.
NPers. c^ang "claw, fist" (*kengo-);
MIr. ail-cheng f. "(weapon) rack"
(: Lit. kénge., s. below);
Gmc *hakan-, *ho:ka-, *he:kan- m. "hook" in:
toponym name Haki m. "hook",
haka f. "chinn",
OE haca m. "bar, bolt", hæcce f. "crosier";
ON ha:kr m. "scamp",
OHG ha:ko, ha:ggo "hook",
OE ho:c m. "hook",
MLG hok, huk m. "corner, promontory",
ON høkja f. (*ho:kio:n-) "crutch", høkill m. "stern";
with intensive gemination:
OE haccian "hack", MLG, MHG hacken id.,
and the j- verbs:
OE ofhæccan "amputare",
OHG hecchen "bite, stab",
MHG hecken "cut, stab";
nasalised MLG hank "handle"
(from that ON ho,nk m., hanki f. "handle"),
Dutch honk, East Fr. hunk "pole, post";
Gmc *hakilo: f. "heckle" (from the curved iron teeth) [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckling_comb ] in:
OLG hekilon "heckle",
Engl. hatchel, MHG hechel "heckle",
Norw. hekla "heckle";
Gmc *hakuda- m. "pike" (from the sharp teeth) in OE hacod;
*hakida in OE hacid m., OHG hachit, hechit, MLG heket "pike" ;
Lit. kénge. f. "hook, latch";
Slav. *kogUtI m. in
Russ. kógotI "claw, curved iron tip",
OSorb. kocht "thorn, sting" (: Gmc *hakuda-);
perhaps here also, as
"hang up on a hook, scratch as with a hook":
bulg. kác^U, kác^(u)vam "raise, hang",
za-kác^U, -kác^am "hang, grasp, taunt",
serb. zàkac^iti "hook on",
sloven. kác^iti "taunt, annoy" (Berneker 465 f.).
WP. I 382 f., WH. I 307, Trautmann 112,
Wissmann Nom. postverb. 182 f.,
Petersson, Heterokl. 91 f.;
Stokes BB. 25, 252.
1. kenk- "gird, envelop, tie (to smt.)".
Ai. káncate: (Dha:tup.) "binds",
kañcuka- m. "armour, doublet, bodice",
ka:ñci: f. "belt";
Greek kigklís "grid" (on i from e s. Solmsen Beitr. I 214 f.),
kákala n. pl. "walls" (*kn.k-),
podo-kák(k)e: "fetter";
lat. cingo:, -ere "gird, enclose in a girdle-like manner",
umbr. sihitu "cinctos", perhaps also
c,ihc,er^a "cancellos" (*kinkeda:-);
lat. -g for c derailment caused by the ambiguous cinxi, cinctum after presents like clingo:, mingo:; WH. I 217 adds to this
Celt. cing- "walk" (differently above p. 439), if originally "*turn in a circle"; the auslaut variation anyway would be understood more easily than the anlaut variation assumed on p. 439; a third way on
Celt. cing-
Kuiper Nasalpräs. 168 f.;
Lit. kinkau~, -ýti "harness horses".
An un-nasalised root form *kek- has been proposed in
Sansk. kaca- m. "human hair ("*tied together"?); scar, seam, band"
and
lat. cica:tri:x "scar, scratch"
(because of a *cica:re from *ceca:re "tie together, cicatrize")?
k^enk-, k^onk- "waver",
originally "hang (in the balance)".
Sanskrit s´án,kate: "vacillates, doubts, fears",
s´an,ká: "worry, fear, doubt",
s´an,kita- "worried";
lat. cunctor "hesitate, am undecided" from *concitor frequentative of *conco:, or deriv. from partcp. *concitos = Sansk. s´an,kita-;
ON hæ:tta "dare" (*hanhatjan-),
hæ:tta f. "danger, venture",
ha:ski m. id. (*hanhaskan-);
Got. st. V. ha:han (pret. haíha:h) "hang, leave hanging",
ON hanga (pret. hekk),
OE ho:n (pret. heng),
OHG ha:han (pret. hiang) "hang" (trans.);
Got. weak verb ha:han (pret. ha:haida) "hang",
ON hanga, OE hongian, OHG hange:n "hang" (intrans.);
causative ON hengja, OHG henge:n "hang";
OHG MHG henken "aufhängen" from *hengjan, from that
German Henkel, Swiss Germ. henkel "carrying strap",
cf. MHG hengel "iron hook, handle"; further likely
OHG ha:hila, -ala f., MLG hole n. "kettle hook" (*hanhilo:);
Hitt. ga-an-ki (kanki) "hangs".
'
Latin cunctor must, pace Pokorny, be derived from an old impers. (ie. 3sg. mediopassive) perfect *kunk-to- "was tied" with dative(?).
I don't think a match could get any better than that.
The "jump" verb from which *xanx/G-ist "stallion; horse" is usually derived then probably meant "leading (a horse) by a line" (and pace P. here too):
'1. k^a:k-: k^&k-,
probably k^a:[i]k-: k^i:k-
(with k^&k- as ablauting new derivation of k^a:k-)
"jump (around), gush out".
Greek ke:kío: "gush out",
ka:kío:: ´idrou~n árxomai.
Láko:nes Hes., ke:kí:s, -i~dos, dor. ka:kí:s f.
"whatever gushes out (blood; purple; frying fat; steam)";
Lesb. kagkúle: id. Hes.;
Lit. s^ókti "jump, dance";
nasalised s^ankùs "agile",
s^ankìnti "make (a horse) jump" (cf. kagkúle:) and
OHG hengist, OE hengest "stallion",
actually superl. "jumping best (onto)",
Gmc *hangista besides *hanhista (gramm. Wechsel) in
ON hestr "horse", to the positive *hanha-, further
Dat. urnord. hahai "to the runner" and
OHG Ha:h-, Hang-, ON Ha:- in names; further
Celt. *kankstika: "Stute" in
Welsh caseg id., bret. pl. kezeg "horses", dial. "mares",
OCorn. cassec "mare", Gaul. toponym Cassiciate (loc.) "horse park".
For ka:ik- : ki:k- are cited the likely
Thracian-Phrygian síkin(n)is
"dance of the Satyrs in honor of Dionysos"
(although i in the lex., but Eur. Cycl. 37 also compatible with i:), probably also
ki~kus f. "power", more exactly "mobility, freshness",
ki:kúo:: taxúno:, isxúo: Zonar.,
ep. ion. áki:kus, -nos "weak, lax";
...
WP. I 334, Hofmann Etym. Gr. Wb. 142, Kluge11 s. v. Hengst.
And the "hunger, thirst" root is probably "tightening one's belt" (impers./mediopass. "it is tightening", cf the second Sanskrit form):
'2. kenk- "burn (be dry), hurt;
also esp. of burning thirst and hunger".
Ai. ka:n,ks.ati "desires" ("burning longing"),
kákate: (Dha:tup.) "thirsts";
Greek kégkei: peina~,
(from aor. *kakei~n a new pres. *kágko: arose, cf.:)
kagkoméne:s: kse:ra~s to:,~ phóbo:, Hes.,
Hom. polukagké:s (dípsa) "very burning",
kágkanos "dry"
kagkaínei: thálpei, kse:raínei Hes.,
kagkaléa: katakekauména Hes.;
kakithe:s: átrophos ámpelos;
kakithés: lime:rés;
kakithá: lime:rá Hes.
(in the ending Schulze Kl. Schr. assumed 329 *aidh- "burn");
Got. hu:hrus,
with gramm. Wechsel
ON hungr, OE hungor, OHG hungar (*kn.kru-) "hunger"
(= Greek kak-);
ablaut. ON ha: "torment" (*hanho:n");
Lit. kankà "pain, suffering", kankìnti "torment", keñkti "hurt".
WP. I 401, Trautmann 126, Wissmann Nom. postverb. 42.'
and
de Vries
'sko,kull m. 'rein; shaft',
nisl. skakel, skekil, nnorw. skokul 'thill',
nschw. skackel 'shaft',
nda skagle 'strap in horse tack'. >
ae. ON. Scakeltorp (zu sko,kull als BN., s. Ekwall 387), >
finn. kakkula 'shaft' (Thomsen 2, 180), >
lpN. skoakkal (Qvigstad 298).
ae. sceacol, (ne. shackle), mnl. schakel
'fetter for animals, chain link, fish net',
East Fr. schakel 'ring shaped wooden piece',
demin. zu norw. skaak, nschw. dial skåk 'thill',
nschw. dial skak 'necklace', zu
ae sceac 'chain',
nd. schake 'chain link'.
Perhaps from an IE root *(s)ke(n)g and then together with
lat. cingo 'girt',
lit. kinkau~, kinkýti 'harness' v.,
gr. podo-kák(k)e: 'fetter',
ai. ka:ñci: 'girdle' (FT 979)
Connection with skaka not recommended here because of the sense, but instead with the forestry word family analyzed under sax.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_tack
This smells more of horse than the Jolly Jumper theory. It seems thus that whatever horse knowledge the Germani had they had from other languages.
Most likely leather belts (*kink-, etc) were derived from horse tack, where the material had to be developed first (no human has the girth to warrant their strength).
Cf. 'cinch'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girth_%28tack%29
Torsten