From: george knysh
Message: 65725
Date: 2010-01-21
--- On Thu, 1/21/10, Torsten <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
--- In cybalist@... s.com, "gknysh" <gknysh@...> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@... s.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@ > wrote:
> > After his defeat to Caesar in 58 BCE, Ariovistus sought refuge
> > with his brother-in-law, king Voccio of Noricum,
>
> GK: IMHO I doubt Ariovistus would have dared to show his facies
> in Noricum sfter the Rhine debacle. "Where's my sister you
> $%*#$$&!!!" shouted Voccio...
Voccio shifted sides in 48 BCE.
http://www.unrv com/provinces/ noricum.php
He seems like a calculating character not given to temperamental outbursts. He would have needed any experienced military leaders he could get in the upcoming struggle with Burebista's Dacians and the potential conflicts with the Romans. But he might of course also have killed him as a matter of political expediency.
*****GK: I just don't see Ariovistus running in that direction.*****
> I prefer the hypothesis that he was slain somewhere on the road,
> along with many other Suebi.
On the road to ...?
****GK: The old home, along with other Suebi.*****
> Since he likely kept his shield (cf. Tacitus G,6) and "fled to
> fight another day" his own Suebi wouldn't have killed him.
Let me do that one better: Since Caesar says his wife was killed and not that he was, he probably wasn't, or he would have.
****GK: Not necessarily.*****
> And Germanic rancor at his death in 54 BCE was associated with the
> Romans.
'Dolor' means neither 'indignation' nor 'rancor', it means 'sorrow' and 'pain'.
****GK: Well, the Perseus people have adopted "great indignation" as a translation. In any case, the point is that the Germanics (esp. the Suebians) blamed the Romans (ultimately) for Ariovistus' demise. The rest is your usual red herring deflection.*****
Douleur
http://en.wiktionar y.org/wiki/ douleur
dolore.
http://www.yourdict ionary.com/ con-dolore
Indignation and rancor is what you feel if something is done to you unjustly by somebody. Sorrow and pain is what you feel if something happens to you.
Get it? Now get your thumb off the scale.
****GK: Just keep sucking on yours. Doesn't bother me.*****
> Ockham would prefer this scenario (:=)).****
I don't think Occam mentioned mistranslation as a methodology.
****GK: He rather preferred to reject unecessarily speculative and complicated "solutions" like your notion of Ariovistus the priest etc.., and he didn't dabble in red herring "methodology" if such cheap debating ploys can be dignified by the term.*****
Torsten