From: Torsten
Message: 65580
Date: 2010-01-02
>
> Rick McCallister schrieb:
>
> > Is it possible that some Romance forms in Albanian are from
> > Dalmatian?
>
> hard to say since the vocalism of Dalmatian ( I mean here specialy
> a strange diphtongation of the words) won't speak for Dalmatian as
> source for Albanian. Yet, it can be there are some loans from
> Dalmatian as well.
>
> > There is a lot of evidence of Romanian adstrate in Albanian and
> > it is postulated that Albanian was originally spoken much closer
> > to the Danube than present.
>
> well, there are other views which postulate the ProtoRomanians
> somewhere in the heart of Balcans thus not so close to Danube.
> Actually this is a never ending story with the place where
> ProtoAlbanians or ProtoRomanians have been located thus each atempt
> to speak about will probably just reopen such discussions. As for
> the common layers Albano-Romanians, there is still a lot to do in
> order to fix up all the interesting points.
>
> > But there seem to be several levels of Romance adstrate in
> > Albanian.
>
> there are for sure at least 2 Latin levels of loans and at least
> one Romance layer of loans in Albanian.
>
> > The first known historical mention of Albanian was in Dalmatian.
> > How far east was Dalmatian spoken? Is it likely that before the
> > Slavic invasions that Dalmatian and Romanian were contiguous?
>
> The slavs made a break in the CommonRomanian unity, testimony of it
> beeing the Aromanian dialects which have very few slavic loans. Yet,
> these dialects are in fact one and the same langauge with
> DacoRomanian, these are not other langauges. Dalmatian cannot be
> considered as beeing a dialect of Romanian. In fact, the Dalmatian
> language looks more "italic" to me, it appears to be more italian
> as romanian. At least this is the feeling I got comparing these
> languages.
>
> Alex
>
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
>
> My impression is that Dalmatian looks closer to Italian than to
> Romanian but it's well known that Italian and Venetian were
> prestige languages and so, may have had an adstratal relationship
> on Dalmatian.
> Dalmatian has /kt/ > /pt/ like Romanian and it has palatalization
> before /i/ but not before /e/. This latter trait seems very
> conservative.
> Why no palatalization with /e/? Any ideas? My only guess is that
> <e> changed from /e/ to something closer to /a/ or /@/.
> Brian --you didn't mention Istriot as part of Dalmatian. Where do
> you, and everyone else, place it?
Look at the dotted line on the Dalmatian coast in 925 CE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Balkans925.png
Points west of that, all cities, were Venetian, or dependecies, or rivals. They are here below, look for 'Venice' and 'Venetian':
http://tinyurl.com/yelcb8n
http://tinyurl.com/yanlj97
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadar#The_Early_Medieval_Period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zadar#Zadar_in_the_Medieval_period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_%28city%29#Middle_Ages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_%28city%29#Early_modern_period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durres#Middle_Ages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_Veneta
It seems part of the language shift was caused by incoming Christian Slav speakers fleeing Ottoman expansion. Today most of the coastline belongs to Croatia.
Torsten