Re: Fw: Re: [tied] Re: Frankish origins

From: Brian M. Scott
Message: 65308
Date: 2009-10-27

At 4:10:01 PM on Sunday, October 25, 2009, Torsten wrote:

[...]

> http://tinyurl.com/yjcsxkk
> Danish original
> http://www.verasir.dk/show.php?file=chap22-1-1.html

He writes:

I Kalevala har Ukko heitet "ylijumala", der i dag
oversættes til "God of Mercy/Lykkens Gud", men oprindeligt
må have haft betydningen "Julens Herre", jvf. julemandens
navn "Ýlir" i Norge/Island i 900 tallet e.Kr.

But <ylijumala> is 'high god' (<yli> 'over, above; more
than', <jumala> 'god'). In fact, Václav Blaz^ek thinks that
the name <Ukko> itself is an adaptation of Baltic *uka- >
Prussian <ucka-> 'prefix expressing the superlative' (as in
<ucka-kuslaisin> 'weakest'): the first god of the Prussian
pantheon is in record as <Occopirmus> 'Saturnus' 1530,
<Ockopirmus> 'der erste Gott Himmels vnd Gestirnes' (16th
cent.), and <Occopirnum> 'deum coeli et terrae' 1563. He
concludes: 'It is generally accepted that the compound
*Uka-pirmas meant "most first"'.

<http://www.leidykla.eu/fileadmin/Baltistika/39_-_2/04-Blazek.pdf>

For that matter, <Ýlir> is the name of a month running from
mid-November to mid-December.


The interpretation of Þórsdrápa 12:5-8 is certainly a bit
idiosyncratic.

þá er funhristis fasta
flóðrifs Danir stóðu
knáttu Jólnis ættir
útvés fyrir lúta

Different editors have distributed the genitives
differently, but one reasonable prose rendering is indeed
the one that he used:

Danir flóðrifs útvés knáttu lúta fyrir [þeim], þá er ættir
funhristis Jólnis stóðu fasta.

Danes of the flood-rib of the outlying sanctuary could bow
down before (them), when (the) kinsmen of Jólnir's
flame-shaker stood fast.

<Flóð> is also 'high tide', and <flóðrif> 'flood-rib, rib of
the high tide' looks like a term for a skerry. <Útvé>
'outlying sanctuary' looks like a parallel to <Útgarða-> in
<Útgarða-Loki>, referring to Jötunheimr; the 'Danes' of its
skerry would be giants.

<Jólnir> is one of Óðin's names, and <funi Jólnis> 'Óðin's
flame' is a kenning for 'sword', so <funhristir Jólnis>
'Óðin's flame-shaker' = <hristir Jólnis funa> 'shaker of
Óðin's flame' = 'sword-shaker' = 'warrior'. Presumably
their kinsmen are also warriors. Thus:

Giants bowed down before them when (the) warriors stood
fast.


He has a grammatical problem with the verse from
Skáldskaparmál:

Jólna sumbl
enn vér gátum,
stillis lof,
sem steina brú.

Here <jólna> is clearly a genitive plural, not the gen.
sing. that he wants it to be.

(The) gods' banquet/drink [= poetry];
we yet fashioned,
(the) king's praise,
like a stone's bridge.

(It's possible that <enn> should be read as <en> 'but/and',
if the first line continues the preceding strophe.)


I also looked at his discussion of English place-names:

I Domesday Book fra år 1086 e.Kr. forekommer i landskabet
"Yorkshire Wolds", et bakket område i East Riding,
Yorkshire det latiniserede mandsnavn "Iole":

Den oldengelske tekst lyder i min oversættelse til
nudansk: "I Beswick tun er der 2 og en halv carucates
gæld, og endnu en halv der tilhørte Iole, som to (plove
kan pløje)". Enheden ”carucates” er fra latin ”caruca”
eller "plov".

Bygden "Basewic" (Beswick) er en bygd i East Riding,
Yorkshire. Mandsnavnet "Iole" er kaldenavnet "Jóli", der
igen er en forkortet udgave af det oldnordiske mandsnavn
"Jólgeirr" (Göngu-Hrólfs saga, kap. 6 og Landnámabók, kap.
8 med bl.a. "Jólgeirsstöðum").

The Landnámabók name is probably an OWScand. spelling of
OEScand. <Iulger>: his brother's name is given as <Ráðormr>,
which I believe is not otherwise attested in OWScand.

Dette navn forekommer på olddansk som "Iulger"
((i)u(l)kiR) på Klemensker-stenen, Bornholm (DR 403)
dateret til år 1050-1150 e.Kr. På Smula Kyrkogård stenen,
Västergötland (Vg184), dateret til sent 1000 tallet e.Kr.
med kristent kors afbildet, forekommer navnet identisk med
Yorkshire gengivelsen som "Jula, Juli" (iula), hvilken
sten indtil 1790erne oprindeligt stod i den lille bygd
Jula, 9 km øst for Mariestad, Västergötland.

Traditionel sprogforskning vil gerne føre forstavelsen i
dette navn til "Ígul" med betydningen "pindsvin,
søpindsvin". Det sker formentlig fordi mandsnavnet
"Ihulkai" (Ígulgeir?) forekommer på Uppsala-stenen (U938),
dateret til sent 1000 tallet e.Kr. med kristent kors
afbildet.

Denne fortolkning finder jeg endog meget svagt
argumenteret, og mener at vi skal se navnet som sammensat
af "Jól" (Jul) og "geirr" (spyd), der i 1000 tallet e.Kr.
er blevet det "civile" navn for "Jólnir", som Jarl og
Erling er blevet simple drengenavne fra det oprindelige
ErilaR (Jarl) æt.

His objection is misplaced, since several names clearly in
<Ígul-> are known from runic inscriptions, as is the simplex
<Ígull>. From Rundata, keeping only the spellings with <g>
or <h>:

Ígulbiörn
Nom. ig(u)lbi(u)rn U667, ihulbarn U593, ihulbiarn *857,
U925, ihulbiurn U901, U904, [ikulbiarn] U51+, ikulburn
U963
Acc. igulbiarn *922$, ihulbiarn Sö2, Sö141, ikulbiaurn
Sö229,

Ígulfastr
Nom. ihulfastr *279, U961, ikulfastr U624, UFv1953;263
Acc. ikulfast U939

Ígulfríðr
Nom. [ikulfriþ] U582+

Ígull
Nom. igul Sö350, ihul U620$, U940, U1027, U1047, ikul
Sö232, U202
Acc. igul Sö381, ihul U997, U1154, [ihul] U378, M14+,
ikhul U758, ikul U624, (i)kul NA13

The name <Iuli> is found not only in the acc. as <iula> on
Vg184, but also in the nom. as <iuli> on Sö362$; as he says,
it's taken to be a short form of names in <Ígul->.

De tidligst kendte stednavne i Britannien, hvori indgår
"Jól", er "Youlton" (Jól's tun) i North Yorkshire, og
"Youlthorpe" (Jól's thorp) i East Riding, Yorkshire.

Here's what Watts has to say about the place-names:

S.n. <Youlton>: 'Joli's estate'. <Loletun(e)> (for
<Iole-> 1086, <Yolton'> 1295-1508.

S.n. <Youlthorpe>: 'Eyjulfr's outlying farm', later
'Yole's outlying farm', with spellings <Aiul(f)torp> 1086,
<Hiel-, Hioltorp> 12th c., <Yolt(h)orpe(e)> 12th-1359.
From the 12th cent. this name contains a different
pers.n., ME <Yole> from ON <Jól>, <Jóli>.

So this one apparently never did contain the Scandinavian
name as such and didn't acquire its ME borrowing until the
12th century.

Brian