From: tgpedersen
Message: 64138
Date: 2009-06-12
>Eugene Helimski
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@> wrote:
> >
> > On 2009-06-08 16:55, tgpedersen wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting move. That would undercut any attempt to introduce
> > > Uralic elements in Polish onomastics such as you do here too:
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/18081
> >
> > Uh... did I claim *weis- was Uralic?
>
> I don't think I said that?
> But both places you are providing an interpretation other than the
> *w(e)is- "poison; green" one which also, as it happens, is a root
> (*wis^a-, with the same meaning) in Finno-Permian.
>
>
> > But never mind Uralic, my proposal concerning the wisent word
> > does not invalidate the reconstruction of *weis- as in Lat.
> > vi:rus etc. or its hydronymic connections.
>
> Which also is a etc etc; see above.
>
> > > BTW, how come the rule -s-R- -> -ks-R- in Wisl/a vs. Weichsel
> > > occurs also in Lith. (tukstantis) and Finnish (one of the
> > > declinations has nom. -s, gen. -ksen, Sibeliuksen, Nurmeksen)?
> >
> > Babik (2002) devotes five pages to the Wisl/a in his book on the
> > oldest layers of Polish toponymy. According to him, the cluster
> > -stl- is in all likelihood original (Lat. <-scl-> and later forms
> > with <-sl-> being secondary)
>
> What are his arguments?
>
> > and the -x- in Weichsel (first attested in the late Middle Ages)
> > may reflect an epenthesised -k- of Baltic (Old Prussian) origin
> > or some sort of hypercorrection/folk etymology in German.
>
> German -chs- is pronounced -ks-, as you probably know.
>
> > Babik regards the name as too old to be safely attributable to
> > any known linguistic group;
>
> If the same development occurs in Finnish and Lithuanian, and the
> latter are known to be newcomers in their present area, perhaps on
> should assign Wisl/a to a Finnish or substrate-to-Finnish group.
>
> > he even doubts if it's etymologisable at all.
>
> That makes sense, since his *wistla would be unique.
>
> > I wouldn't bee so pessimistic. The traditional etymology
> > *weis-tlah2 doesn't look bad to me.
>
> *tlax- meaning?
>
> > > And also, since the *wis- root means "green" besides "stinking;
> > > toxic", as an epithet of rivers it perhaps just meant "full of
> > > duckweed etc"?
> >
> > I've never seen any conspicuous quantity of that stuff in the
> > Vistula. It's a big and relatively fast-flowing river.
>
> Along its entire course? Seems eg. the Volga was named thus in its
> upper course.