Re: [G] and [g] and PIE voiced plosives

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Jarrette" <anjarrette@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > DEO says Da. dog, Sw. dock are loans from MLG doch, which around
> > > 1400 replaced ODa. tho: < ON þó; ODa. tho: is preserved in the
> > > Jysk initiating particle / interjection 'to'. That leaves Du.
> > > 'toch' unexplained.
> > >
>
> I read this at the website, where some of your characters come out
> funny. One of your earlier postings I had to give up making sense of
> because of that.

I have to remember to set my character encoding to unicode. For some
reason it always falls back to the default "western", which I think is
the reason for the strange characters.

>
> > Dutch also has 'doch' ("but" according to an online dictionary).
> > Maybe 'toch' is from *et-�auh or *e�-�auh or *ed-�auh, with the
> > same prefix as either OE '�thw�' "each person, every person", or
> > as German 'etwas' (OHG 'eddeshwaz', 'etheswaz', 'etewaz', as well
> > as 'eddeshwer, etewer' "jemand", etc.). Or from *�auh with some
> > other prefix.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> I'd look at another angle:
> The words in English which have initial ð- < þ- have d- in
> Scandinavian instead of t-, so that one might claim Gmc. ð-, þ- >
> Scand. t-, d-, which means that the ð- variant of initial þ- goes back
> to Proto-Germanic. It occurs in words which might be used enclitically
> (which is the case for 'though'), thus escaping the Verner proviso of
> initialness. Frisian has þ- > t-, unlike Dutch, loan?
>
>
> Torsten
>

Could be, although I think the various Frisian dialects have different
outcomes in these common þ- words. As I quoted before, OED mentions
"OFris. <thâch> (Saterl. <dach>)" under <though>, whether "Saterl." is
a Frisian dialect, or the name of a linguist they are quoting from,
who knows Frisian.

Andrew