Re: American Dutch dialects

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
>
> > > On another subject:
> > > Chasing links I fell over this
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Dutch
> > > http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/ginn001hand01_01/ginn001hand01_01_0012.htm
> > > http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/daan001ikwa01_01/daan001ikwa01_01_0003.htm
> > > http://www.bartleby.com/185/a12.html
> > >
> > >
> > > Torsten
> > >
> >
> > These links are all very interesting, presenting much information
> > about North American Dutch dialects I never knew (but always
> > suspected) existed.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
>
> I heard some guy doing a series om them on Dutch radio.
> I think they rather strengthen my case that standard American English
> (not the various dialects) has a Dutch substrate. ;-)
> That would have happened when New York based authors 'reached down'
> into lower sociological layers to find something to strengthen the
> American culture, since the 'higher' culture was English (Washington
> Irving, Rip van Winkle, Santa Claus)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Irving
> in style with what European writers did at the same time with their
> country dialects.
> Of course, the Anglophonic stereotype of the Dutch as clueless dorks
> who live in windmills and have tulips in their garden would work
> against a recognition that this is how it went down.
>
> I tried to find some good YouTube examples of Zeeuws (that dialect is
> supposed to have played a large part in the formation of Afrikaans
> too) with some nice Leids/American retroflex r's, but so far without
> success.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_dialects
> Your beloved Old Saxon is to the right.
> I find it intriguing that the Heliand was written to the south of
> Holland, that makes Dutch an enclave of something else.
>
>
> Torsten
>

All very interesting, the links and comments you provided. But did
you think that Dutch is descended from Old Saxon, as your last
sentence seems to suggest? Of course it is the modern representative
of Old Low Franconian, which we have been discussing recently on the
list (the Lex Salica and the other monastic vows whose manuscripts
we've examined, and the first examples of Dutch/Flemish these contain
(e.g. the "hebban olla vogala nestas hagunnan hinase hi(c) (e)nda thu
w(at) (u)nbidan (w)e nu" and the "maltho thi afrio lito"/"maltho: the
atomeo, theo"). But you know that already, don't you?

Andrew