> The problem with this Yeniseic word *ses 'river" is that it very
> much looks like a LW from Uralic.
> And the pattern s / t supposedly "native" to Yeniseic follows the
> pattern of Ostyak l / y / s / t which explains more hydronyms than
> Yeniseic can.
How do you know Ostyak doesn't have a Yeniseian substrate?
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I'm trying to sort out all those hydronyms listed in Werner's Yeniseic
Dictionary (2002).
The first and obvious observation is that the area with Yeniseic items is
much smaller than the area with Uralic items.
The word "substrate" is clearly not neutral.
The situation is more that there is a huge Uralic area from Ural mountains
to the eastern tributaries of the Yenisei River with Yeniseic dots here and
there.
Vajda agrees that Yeniseic is more or less intrusive but he nevertheless
claims that the southern upstream Yenisei area is a kind of Yeniseic
"Homeland".
I tend to disagree because if you follow the dots in the Tom Thumb way.
1 Existing Yeniseic (middle Yenisei river)
2. Southern Yenisei river
3. mid-stream Irtish River : couple of Yeniseic hydronyms with Turcicized
phonetics.
4. Is-set River (a tributary of the Tobol) : fish-river in Yeniseic.
Then you get out of the area.
Yenisei came from the west and moved east, then north.
A.
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But if the first component is limited to just one particular branch of
Uralic, how do you know it Uralic and not from a lost branch of Yeniseian?
=======
Because PErmic, UGric and Samoyedic are three different branches
and there is no particular reason to invent a lost branch of Yeniseic.
A.
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> Side remarks:
>
> Ir-tys^ is "river Ir"? As in River Or-pe?
>
> =======
>
> Maybe just "drink-water".
>
Why 'drink'?
Torsten
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I suppose they drink water the same way as the rest of mankind do.
They won't eat it !?
A.