Re: Belgs

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> > =========
> > It's difficult to understand how a FU substrate could explain b/v.
> >
> > If I understood your theory about Venetic,
> > this languagee is supposed to have occupied much of Central Europe
> > _before_ Italic+Celtic intruded in that area.
>
> The interesting (*very*!) thing is that if the Finno-Ugric volg-,
> Venetic bolg-, Germanic balg- words are in fact the result of
> successive layers of new languages covering the same area, then the
> coastal stretch from (Volga to) Eastern Prussia to England was once
> Uralic-, later the western part Venetic-speaking.
>
> =======
>
> The word I have most appreciated here is "in fact" !!

I hope you have appreciated that the context was 'if ... in fact ...'.

>
> I'm afraid you are falling from nephelococcygian into oinococcygian.
> Have you had a recent orgy with M. Kalevi Wiik ?
>=======

Usually I make my mind up on what I should be reading at next based on
the degree of inanity of the blather people are willing to emit in
order to keep me away from it.

> Appellative occurrences of volg-
> Uralic
> http://tinyurl.com/a7fptz
>
> ====
> The reconstruction is bad as usual.
> Better is CuH-il-
> C can be either w- or N-

I get it from UEW that the edh is there in order to explain the umlaut
of the Hungarian gloss. If that is left out, we might posit (?*n,Wul-

>) *n,WuGl- > *wulg- vel sim-, which is more like what you want.

> Cf. Eskimo *uR to thaw, to melt.
> And the other words listed under your nostratic link.
> C would then probably be w-
> Hence *wuHil-
>
> 'Nostratic'
> http://tinyurl.com/8gq2h3
> In Turk. cf. perhaps Yak. ul- 'to melt'; Kaz. ɨlɣal, Turk. ɨɣal

'dampness'

>
> This is where Uralic belongs.
>
> Finnic from *wuHil should be *wil or *wel
> This is what you have to look for.
>
> A.
> ======

This is what I have to look for
http://tinyurl.com/9zfwux

> Baltic
> http://tinyurl.com/8kyas5
> Slavic
> http://tinyurl.com/9qkdx4
> 'Echt' Germanic
> http://tinyurl.com/8kr6lm
>
> It seems the sense was "navigable channel, with strong current" vel
> sim. (hence FW, ? FU walke 'weiß, hell, leuchtend; leuchten' ?)
>
> ======
>
> The Vasmer quote for Slavic in German instead:
> 'vológa 'Feuchtigkeit, Flüssigkeit, flüssiges Fett als Zutat', auch
> 'Speise' (Kirs^a Danilov), 'gekochtes Rindfleisch, Fisch und andere
> Zutaten zur Kohlsuppe; gekochte, flüssige Nahrung' Arch. (Podv.),
> Olon, (Kulik.),
> ukr. vol/óha 'fette Feuchtigkeit',
> aruss. vologa 'Suppe, Nahrung' u. a. Domostroj K.45 ff.,
> abulg. vlaga notía (Supr.),
> bulg. vlága, skr. vl`àga, sloven. vlága, c^ech. vláha, slk. vlaha,
> osorb. wl/óha. nsorb. wl/oga. ||
> Ablaut: vólgkij, volglyj, vólgnutI, Vólga.
> Urverwandt:
> lit. válgyti, vìlgyti 'anfeuchten',
> lett. valgs 'feucht', ve,lgs 'Feuchtigkeit, feucht', pavalgà 'Zutat,
> Zukost',
> ahd. welc 'feucht, welk', wolkan 'Wolke',
> maked. FlN. Ã"lganos,
> aind. vr.janí: 'Wolke',
> ferner ir. folc 'Wasserflut', folcaim 'wasche',...'
>
> Torsten
>
> ========
>
> How do you connect Uralic *wuHil and PIE *welg- ?
>

I think one should connect one's own reconstructions.
Mine was Uralic *walg-/*wulg-.


Torsten