--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
>
>
> Now if that *pa:d thing (note the long vowel) in Swedish meant
> something like "low-lying land" (and there are many promising
> cognates in NWB-land), it could be categorized with all those other
> words with labial having to do with water; that might solve the
> *paþ- "way, path, road" mystery too.
>
> Note that it's a word in p-, so it's not Germanic, it can't be NWB,
>
> =========
>
> Why is it not NWB ?
>
> Even North Saami has NWB words.
> bovttas^ = puffin
> balsa = peat / pedel=peel
> bupmalas = fulmar
> giron = grouse
> c^uodja = (water) sound
If you want to define every loan in Germanic with initial p- as NWB,
the word loses its meaning.
> There's no reason to accept the idea NWB was limited to the western
> bank of the Rhine...
Last I was there, the Netherlands were mostly on the eastern bank, but
never mind... As was obvious from the Jysk data, there wasn't much
overlap
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/30336
> That supposed area from Somme to Rhine clearly does not fit the
> area where those un-Germanic p- words are distributed.
Weser/Aller to Somme/Oise, was Kuhn's definition
> unless it's imported by someone, and on top of that, according to at
> least one of Schmid's examples (Pala vs. Fala)
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/61266
> hydronyms in Scandinavia should be Grimm-shifted.
> This is a tough one.
It gets worse.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/36030
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/48678
All the villages with *pedese names are placed on a minor stream,
except Petze, and with a more detailed map it might turn there was one
there too.
Uralisches etymologisches Wörterbuch:
'puða-se "Flußarm" U
? Finn. pudas (Gen. putaan) "Flußarm" (> lapp. N buðes-ððas- "the
smaller branch of a river which divides into two branches for a short
distance", russ. púdas, pudás "enger Flußarm, Bucht") |
? lapp. N bo,vces -k'c- bo,k'ca "winding creek in a river (where an
island is formed when the river is in flood)", ...
Kolt-Saami Paatsjoki-Saami pò,uta_s,
Notozero-Saami pa:utas "kleinerer Arm eines Flusses" |
? [ostj. (741)
Vach pas&l "Zufluß (lang drei Tagereisen)",
Fili pas (Pl. past&t) "Zufluß",
Kazym pos&l "Nebenarm eines Flusses (weit abliegend)" |
wog. (WV 76)
Untere Kunda pas&l,
Pelymka pos&l,
Sosya posal "Seitenarm eines Flusses"] ||
?sam. jur. (345)
Ust´e pa:ra:d,
Njalina pa:rat "Unterarm (Ust´e), Oberarm (Ust´e Njalina)",
Obdorsk pa:rod? "Seitenarm eines Flusses".
Finn., lapp. s und sam. t, ð sind Ableitungssuffìxe.
Finn. pudas kann auf Grund seiner geographischen Verbreitung auch eine
Entlehnung aus dem Lapp. sein.
Der inlautende Konsonantismus im Lapp. ist unregelmäßig: N bo,vces
-k'ca- kann auf urlapp. *pukc^ase, Kolt-Saami Paatsjoki-Saami pò:utas
und Notozero-Saami pa:utas auf uгlapp. *puktase zurückgeführt werden.
Das ostjakische und das wogulische Wort können nur dann zu dieser
Zusammenstellung gehören, wenn im Obugrischen eine Metathese
stattgefunden hat und das inlautende s ursprünglich ein Suffixelement war.
Das samojedische jurakische Wort hat früher wahrscheinlich "Unterarm,
Oberarm" bedeutet, so daß diese Zugehörigkeit ebenfalls fraglich ist.'
If this gloss has Uralic distribution, what is it doing in NWGermany
and the Netherlands? This is very weird.
Torsten