Re: Velar vs Uvular (was: Verdict on Mann)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stlatos" <stlatos@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:50 AM
> Subject: [tied] Velar vs Uvular (was: Verdict on Mann)
>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@> wrote:
>
> > I prefer to keep an open mind as regards the phonetic details. I
> believe
> > it's likely that *k was a uvular and *k^ a plain velar at least at

some

> > pre-PIE stage. However, even in PIE itself, the *k-series dorsals seem
> > to have triggered a-colouring quite frequently, as if they had
> patterned
> > with *h2. This happened even to the final vowel of thematic stems when
> > extended with the suffix *-ko- (note the absence of Brugmann's Law in
> > Skt. -a-ka-, pointing to *-a-ko-). I wouldn't expect such influence
> from
> > a plain velar.
>
> I disagree. In Khowar plain velars changed o > a or prevented a > A
> (low back V) > O > o, as in *sxàL+ > *s.àl > s.òr 'salty', *n+ >
> *uns.xàl+ > wexàl 'unsalty'.
>
> ========
> Do you have an example with a word which is not an obvious loanword ?

If you think Skt u:s.ara- is "obviously" the source of s.òr 'salty'
you should consider other borrowings:


u- > we- before fric.:

Iranian *uzayana+ > wezén 'last night'

Skt is.u- > *üs.u > wes.ù 'arrow'

*n+sxàL+ > *uns.xàl+ > *us.xàl > wexàl 'unsalty'


u- retained before stop > fric.:

Skt udaká- > *uDaGà > ùG 'water'

*xWougYsto+ > *o:ks.t.ya+ > usaki 'cold', usakéy- 'become cold'

(compare Arm oic 'cold', ucanam 'I grow cold')


u- retained before fric. > stop:

Skt us.t.ra- > *ut.rà > ùt. 'camel'


If you want to claim a rule is optional, or something similar, give
some evidence, but I can't agree that anything you might say would be
"obviously" true.


Another unusual positive-negative set is srùng 'horn', l.ùng
'hornless'. Is borrowing able to account for this?