Re: An Alteuropäisch appellative as loanword?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "bmscotttg" <BMScott@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@>
> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@>
> > wrote:
>
> >> At 8:53:37 PM on Tuesday, November 11, 2008, tgpedersen
> >> wrote:
>
> >> [...]
>
> >>>> The interpretation "(barge-)pulling (river)" also
> >>>> explains Slav. *drug- "friend" (< *droug- < *dron,W-,
> >>>> like plug < *ploug- < *plon,W) and ON drengr "servant" as
> >>>> "pullers" in a team (*druxt-).
>
> >> <Drengr> 'servant'? Amazing what one can do with bad
> >> glosses.
>
> > Out of laziness I didn't check de Vries and DEO; here's what
> > they say.
> > de Vries:
> > 'drengr 1 m.
> > 'dicker stock; mann, knabe, diener
> > (< germ. *drangja oder *drangi, ...,
> > run. schw. trekaR (Eneberga), dä. triks g. sg. (Simris II).
> > Für die bedeutung 'mitglied der königlichen hird s. Aakjær APhS 2,
> > 1927, 1-30 und Jacobsen-Moltke NB 23, 1935, 190. —-
> > nisl. drengur, fär. drongur, nnorw. dä. dreng, nschw. dräng. — >
> > ae. dreng, me. dreng, dring (Björkman 208);
> > shetl. drengi 'tabuwort für heilbutt' (Jakobsen 117). —
> > Für idg. Verw. s. drangr.
>
> Which means 'a detached pillar of rock'.

Yes, I listed that later.

> > 2 m. 'tau zum festbinden'. — >
>
> [...]
>
> > DEO:
> > 'dreng en;
> > glda., no. d.s., sv. dräng 'tjenestekarl',
> > oldnord. drengr m. 'menneske; karl; ung mand; tyk stok';
>
> Note: no servants here.

Da. dreng "boy", ODa., Nw. id.
Diener "servant", tjenestekarl "farm hand, servant".
What is it you don't understand?

> > Om betydn.-udv. fra 'tyk stok' til 'ung mand' se u. bengel. —
>
> [...]
>
> > Seems I didn't misremember too much.
>
> Seems that you don't understand what you read. 'Servant' is
> clearly a derived meaning, from earlier 'young man', as is the
> usual ON sense, 'bold man, valiant man, worthy man' (which is
> found also in the OE borrowing <dreng>).

But still a subordinate.

> DEO further takes young man' to be a derived sense, from 'thick
> pole'; Cleasby thought that the original form was <drangr> 'a
> detached pillar of rock', with a similar sense development.

And I think it meant "someone or someone that helps move a boat"

> But whether or not they're right about the earliest stage, it's
> clear that the word was not originally 'servant' or 'puller'.

Now you are clearlying again. I proposed that that is what the word
meant, knowing full well that the dictionaries said otherwise. This is
an example of my principle that if one has an idea that is not in the
books one should propose it, but if one doesn't one should keep one's
mouth shut.


Torsten