Re: An Alteuropäisch appellative as loanword?

From: bmscotttg
Message: 61571
Date: 2008-11-12

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@>
> wrote:

>> At 8:53:37 PM on Tuesday, November 11, 2008, tgpedersen
>> wrote:

>> [...]

>>>> The interpretation "(barge-)pulling (river)" also
>>>> explains Slav. *drug- "friend" (< *droug- < *dron,W-,
>>>> like plug < *ploug- < *plon,W) and ON drengr "servant" as
>>>> "pullers" in a team (*druxt-).

>> <Drengr> 'servant'? Amazing what one can do with bad
>> glosses.

> Out of laziness I didn't check de Vries and DEO; here's what
> they say.
> de Vries:
> 'drengr 1 m.
> 'dicker stock; mann, knabe, diener
> (< germ. *drangja oder *drangi, s. I. Lindquist, NB 27, 1939, 27 8),
> run. schw. trekaR (Eneberga), dä. triks g. sg. (Simris II).
> Für die bedeutung 'mitglied der königlichen hird s. Aakjær APhS 2,
> 1927, 1-30 und Jacobsen-Moltke NB 23, 1935, 190. —-
> nisl. drengur, fär. drongur, nnorw. dä. dreng, nschw. dräng. — >
> ae. dreng, me. dreng, dring (Björkman 208);
> shetl. drengi 'tabuwort für heilbutt' (Jakobsen 117). —
> Für idg. Verw. s. drangr.

Which means 'a detached pillar of rock'.

> 2 m. 'tau zum festbinden'. — >

[...]

> DEO:
> 'dreng en;
> glda., no. d.s., sv. dräng 'tjenestekarl',
> oldnord. drengr m. 'menneske; karl; ung mand; tyk stok';

Note: no servants here.

[...]

> Om betydn.-udv. fra 'tyk stok' til 'ung mand' se u. bengel. —

[...]

> Seems I didn't misremember too much.

Seems that you don't understand what you read. 'Servant' is
clearly a derived meaning, from earlier 'young man', as is the
usual ON sense, 'bold man, valiant man, worthy man' (which is
found also in the OE borrowing <dreng>). DEO further takes
young man' to be a derived sense, from 'thick pole'; Cleasby
thought that the original form was <drangr> 'a detached pillar
of rock', with a similar sense development. But whether or
not they're right about the earliest stage, it's clear that the
word was not originally 'servant' or 'puller'.

Brian