Re: Vandals

At 6:54:31 PM on Thursday, August 28, 2008, tgpedersen
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...> wrote:

>> At 4:18:56 AM on Thursday, August 28, 2008, tgpedersen
>> wrote:

>>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "indravayu" <sonno3@>
>>> wrote:

>>>>>> Gambrivii - likely related to Old High German gambar
>>>>>> "vigorous".

> ...

>>>> See the following article for more info, including
>>>> etymological speculation:

>>>> http://books.google.com/books?
>>>> id=mjnpsC6Lq4QC&pg=PA407&lpg=PA407&dq=gambar,+gambrivii&
>>>> source=web&ots=XKEG8QCNln&sig=T1_UBzubG5Ww3AOq1R0WX5KeJvI&hl=en&
>>>> sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

>>> You should use tinyurl.

>>> There is no way around the conclusion that Gambrivii and
>>> Sugambri are related. If those names are Germanic, so is
>>> su-, which makes it a once-only in Germanic. Not tenable.

>> If you'd bothered to read the passage in question,

> I did already, by reconstructing your clumsy link.

Not mine. And your comments gave no evidence of your having
done so.

>> you'd know of OIc <súsvo,rt>, there glossed 'Schwarzamsel'. In
>> 'Barlaams ok Josaphats saga' it seems to be a name for the
>> nightingale:

>> Einn veiðimaðr tok einn fugll með list. þann er heitir
>> filomena a latinv. en a norreno [heitir susvort |
>> susuaurtt]. sumir kalla oc [niktigalo | niktigala].

>> <http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=U74yeskSxfoC>, p.
>> 39.

> ...

> Dansk Etymologisk Ordbog:
> 'solsort "Turdus merula" {blackbird];
> MDa sols(v)ort, Sw.dial. solsvärta.
> 2nd elmt. is adj. sort ["black"]. 1st elmt. might be same
> word as 1st elmt. of solbær ["blackcurrants"], Gmc.
> *salwa- so that the cmpd. means "greyish black". This
> designation would then refer to the female, which is
> greyish black (brownish on the upper side), whole Nw.dial.
> kolsvarta, svartetrast, Sw. koltrast ['kol' "coal"], Germ.
> Schwarzdrossel, Eng. blackbird refers to the black male. -
> Or possibly with Jysk sjælswot etc "blackbird" borrowed
> from MLG self-, solf-, sulfswart adj. "black in itself"
> (of the natural color of wool).'

> It is pretty obvious that the su- in the Icl. word can't
> be the PIE *h12su-

Er, why? Because you don't want it to be? You're ignoring
both the OIc. and the nynorsk evidence. In fact it's pretty
obvious from the totality of the evidence that it *can* be,
though I'd not go so far as to say that the evidence was
conclusive.

>>>>>> Vandilii seems like it is derived from Gmnc *wandiloz
>>>>>> "wanderer".

>>>>> Supposedly connected to PIE *wendh-. The -a-, like
>>>>> that of Vandili, is unexplained.

>>>> According to whom?

>>> According to me. But it's a general problem in
>>> traditional Germanic etymology; people assume various
>>> ablaut grades without any external reason.

>> If it's derived from a <-jan> verb, the o-grade is expected.

> There isn't any verb *wand-ja-.

Gothic <wandjan>, OE <wendan>, ON <venda>, OHG <wenten>,
OSax <wendian>.

Brian