Re: Vandals

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:

>
> At 4:18:56 AM on Thursday, August 28, 2008, tgpedersen
> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "indravayu" <sonno3@>
> > wrote:
>
> >>>> Gambrivii - likely related to Old High German gambar
> >>>> "vigorous".

...

> >> See the following article for more info, including
> >> etymological speculation:
>
> >> http://books.google.com/books?
> >> id=mjnpsC6Lq4QC&pg=PA407&lpg=PA407&dq=gambar,+gambrivii&
> >> source=web&ots=XKEG8QCNln&sig=T1_UBzubG5Ww3AOq1R0WX5KeJvI&hl=en&
> >> sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result
>
> > You should use tinyurl.
>
> > There is no way around the conclusion that Gambrivii and
> > Sugambri are related. If those names are Germanic, so is
> > su-, which makes it a once-only in Germanic. Not tenable.
>
> If you'd bothered to read the passage in question,

I did already, by reconstructing your clumsy link.

> you'd know of OIc <súsvo,rt>, there glossed 'Schwarzamsel'. In
> 'Barlaams ok Josaphats saga' it seems to be a name for the
> nightingale:
>
> Einn veiðimaðr tok einn fugll með list. þann er heitir
> filomena a latinv. en a norreno [heitir susvort |
> susuaurtt]. sumir kalla oc [niktigalo | niktigala].
>
> <http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=U74yeskSxfoC>, p.
> 39.
>

...

Dansk Etymologisk Ordbog:
'solsort "Turdus merula" {blackbird];
MDa sols(v)ort, Sw.dial. solsvärta.
2nd elmt. is adj. sort ["black"]. 1st elmt. might be same word as 1st
elmt. of solbær ["blackcurrants"], Gmc. *salwa- so that the cmpd.
means "greyish black". This designation would then refer to the
female, which is greyish black (brownish on the upper side), whole
Nw.dial. kolsvarta, svartetrast, Sw. koltrast ['kol' "coal"], Germ.
Schwarzdrossel, Eng. blackbird refers to the black male. - Or possibly
with Jysk sjælswot etc "blackbird" borrowed from MLG self-, solf-,
sulfswart adj. "black in itself" (of the natural color of
wool).'

It is pretty obvious that the su- in the Icl. word can't be the PIE
*h12su-

> >>>> Vandilii seems like it is derived from Gmnc *wandiloz
> >>>> "wanderer".
>
> >>> Supposedly connected to PIE *wendh-. The -a-, like that
> >>> of Vandili, is unexplained.
>
> >> According to whom?
>
> > According to me. But it's a general problem in traditional
> > Germanic etymology; people assume various ablaut grades
> > without any external reason.
>
> If it's derived from a <-jan> verb, the o-grade is expected.

There isn't any verb *wand-ja-.


Torsten