Re: Haplogroup I

From: tgpedersen
Message: 59819
Date: 2008-08-17

> Here is my version.
> I realized last night this is what might have happened.
> I felt sick.
>
> When the Przeworsk
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przeworsk_culture
> and Zarubintsy
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarubintsy_culture
> cultures made contact, they mixed, and a (more or less forced)
> division of labor arose: Slavic (from Zarubintzy) speaking farmers,
> Germanic (from Przeworsk) speaking predators/rulers. A number of
> people, refugees from the Mithridatic war north of the Black sea
> arrives, carrying I1a, once carried by only a small group of people.
> Somehow a few of them take over.
>
> Woden/Ariovistus/Harjagist-, who had led a major campaign through
> the Wetterau valley and had almost completed the conquest of what
> is now Southern Germany (south of the river Main) from the Boii and
> Helvetii, was hired by the Arverni and Sequani to wage war on the
> Aedui, the arrangement being, as usual, that the farmers in the
> land where they were stationed should provide food (and
> accommodation?) for them. Since the Aedui were officially friends
> of the Romans, Caesar as Roman consul negotiated with Ariovistus
> and after getting an agreement that A. would get out of his
> employment with the Arverni and Sequani and stop waging war on the
> Aedui, A. was pronounced a friend of the Roman people. However, A.
> does not leave Sequani territory. The Aedui and Sequani reach an
> agreement that this can't be tolerated, so they together attack A.,
> but are routed. A., who suspects Caesar has had a role to play in
> this betrayal, now has to find someone trustworthy to provide
> provisions, so he demands another third of the Sequani land and
> sends for the Charudes/Hrvaty/Croats from the Carpatians, so that
> they might take over evicted farms (this is not a type of work, the
> Germani part of A.'s army want to bother with here or elsewhere).
> The plan backfires, A. is defeated, and the Charudes/Hrvaty/Croats
> are stuck en route, property-less, most of them probably in
> Noricum, ruled by A.'s brother-in-law, king Voccio. They have now
> become a political embarasment to king V. in his relationship with
> the Romans and he decides to get rid of A.'s and his advisors'
> helmets at Negow, eventually bequeathing his realm to the Romans on
> his death in 15 BCE, probably with some kind of understanding that
> this would avert reprisals, and the unwanted Charudes/Hrvaty/Croats
> begin to migrate south, becoming the South Slavs. They would then
> be the people carrying the Croatian variant I1b-M227
> http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI08.html
> the rest of the Charudes etc went north with the other Germani and
> ended in Jutland (Hardsyssel) and Norway (Hordaland).
>
> Snorri: Prologue:
> 'The Æsir took wives of the land for themselves, and some also for
> their sons; and these kindreds became many in number, so that
> throughout Saxland, and thence all over the region of the north,
> they spread out until their tongue, even the speech of the men of
> Asia, was the native tongue over all these lands.'
>
> I1a (Oppenheimer's Ian) has a frequency of 37% in Denmark. There are
> no female correspondences to it in distribution.
>
> More than one third. That must have been a bloody affair.
> On the other hand I think I read that a similar sociological process
> took place in Persia after the Islamic conquest.
>
> Those people populated a large part of NWEurope, under the name of
> Germani, from the language their upper class picked up in Przeworsk.
>
> For those that think mass killings is a modern phenomenon
> www.austhink.org/monk/War2.doc
>
> Here's something Brian might like:
> http://tinyurl.com/6ql4q7
>
> Criminal, POW; once they're in the grave, no one can tell the
> difference. Perhaps the 'execution cemeteries' should be reevaluated
> as just mass graves. The criminals were guilty of not being
> Germanic.
>
> The only solid thing ethnically we know of I2 is that is is common
> in Sardinia. The only major migratory thing, we might connect with
> Sardinia is the Sea Peoples
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/16277
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples
>
> It would seem some of the sea peoples had connections in NWEurope?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I_(Y-DNA)
'It is notable, however, that the distributions of Haplogroup I1 and
Haplogroup I2b seem to correlate fairly well with the extent of
historical influence of Germanic peoples, although the punctual
presence of both haplogroups at a low frequency in the area of the
historical regions of Bithynia and Galatia in Turkey rather suggests a
connection with the ancient Gauls of Thrace, several tribes of which
are recorded to have immigrated to those parts of Anatolia at the
invitation of Nicomedes I of Bithynia.'

Or a Germanic connection with a people which emigrated from there?


Torsten