Re: V-, B-

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Orbis Latinus
> > http://www.columbia.edu/acis/ets/Graesse/orblatv.html
> > has
> >
> > no names in B- for Venezia
> >
> > one name in B- for Vienna
> > Vindobona, Vendobona, Vindomana, Vindomina, Juliobona, Flaviana
> > castra, Vienna, Vienna Austriae od. Fluviorum, Vienni (Wi.),
> > Wiena, -nna, Winna, Byenna (Winensis), Wien, Stadt, Niederösterr.
> >
> > no names in B- for Villach
> > Vaconium, Villas, -lacum, Viccacum (Villacensis),
> > Villach, Stadt, Österr. (Kärnten)
> >
> > and the rest of names of these towns the Slavic and most other
> > names outside of this 'central Slavic' area are in V-. The Latin-
> > speaking part of the Roman empire was much bigger than that.
> >
> > So, I'm not convinced it was the influence of Vulgar Latin.
> > Actually I'm fishing for something Venetic.

While I'm at it: Bratislava vs. Vratislav, Breclav and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walha
Bloch, Bol/och, Bol/oz, (Blaise?)
...

> Forget whatever I said about *Weneto:s speaking Alteuropäisch. I
> convinced myself over the course of last week that Alteuropäisch is
> a western offshoot of unsatemized Indo-Iranian. This simple
> assumption explains not only the predominant /a/-vocalism but also
> several other problems regarding the morphology, lexicon, and
> geography of the river-names. Details will follow in a week or
> two, assuming I can avoid misplacing my references.
>
> In this new view, the self-name *Weneto:s 'Beloved Ones' was used
> by native Western IE-speakers to distinguish themselves from the
> Eastern invaders. Indeed, the name could have served as a
> shibboleth, since an Indo-Iranian-speaker posing as a native would
> have pronounced *Wenetos as *Wanatas, giving himself away with his
> lack of /e/.
>
> The notion that Indo-Iranian-speakers inhabited pre-Celtic Britain
> might be jarring to some; hopefully stiff upper lips can be kept.

I don't think a-vocalism alone is enough to characterize Alteuropäisch
as Indo-Iranian. On might imagine early IE dialects in Europe not
having undergone ablauting (*a > e, o, zero), or gone ablauting >
de-ablauting like Indo-Iranian. Note that the Vandals (with
non-ablauted /a/) at the mouth of the Oder (cf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vineta
) are connected archaeologically with Vend-syssel (with ablauted /e/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendsyssel and that the Langobardi, when
they lived west of the Elbe were called Vinnili (with Germanic
*-en- > *-in-, from ablauted /e/). From that it seems ablauting was
dialectal in Alteuropäisch/Venetic.


Torsten