Re[2]: [tied] Flanders = Low Land? Flooded Land?

At 5:13:23 PM on Wednesday, May 14, 2008, Miguel Carrasquer
Vidal wrote:

> On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:20:07 -0700 (PDT), "Joao S. Lopes"
> <josimo70@...> wrote:

>>Does anyone know the correct etymology of Flanders and
>>Fleming? I'm finding many references about Flanders
>>(Vlaanderen) meaning "low land", or "flooded land". I'd
>>like to know the Germanic original form. Vlaa < *Fla: I
>>can relate to flood, fluot, flo:d, but the ending
>>-deren...

> According to Wikipedia (without references):

> Vlaanderen, Vlaming en Vlaams zijn afgeleid van flâm, een
> Ingveoonse vorm van het Germaanse flauma en dit betekent
> "overstroomd gebied". Deze etymologie lijkt de enige die
> taalkundig mogelijk is en klopt geografisch uitstekend. Deze
> betekenis is zeer toepasselijk voor het Vlaamse kustgebied
> dat tussen de 3de en de 8ste eeuw tweemaal per dag
> overstroomde door de Noor dzee.
> Een inwoner van dit overstroomd gebied is dus een Flaming,
> het adjectief Flamis. Door bij de stam flâm het suffix
> -andra te voegen, bekomt men in datief meervoud Flaumandrum,
> verkort tot Flamandrum en uiteindelijk Flandrum. [...]

> Translated:

> "Vlaanderen (Flanders), Vlaming (Fleming) and Vlaams
> (Flemish) are derived from *flâm, an Ingvaeonic form of
> Germanic *flaumaz [PIE *plou-mos --mcv], meaning "flooded
> area". This etymology appears to be the only one that is
> linguistically possible and geographically accurate. The
> semantics are a perfect fit for the Flemish coastal area
> which between the 3rd and 8th centuries was flooded by the
> North Sea twice a day.
> An inhabitant of this flooded area is a flâming, the
> adjective is flâmisk."

> Apart from a few typos in the original text, the above
> seems plausible enough. But the following passage looks
> like it was summarized from a scientific source by someone
> who didn't fully understand what he was summarizing:

> "By adding to the stem flâm the suffix -andra, one gets a
> dative plural Flaumandrum, shortened to Flamandrum and
> eventually to Flandrum."

> I don't know what kind of suffix -andra is, and I don't
> know what the Dat.pl. has to do with anything.

<http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flandre> offers a compact
version of the same etymology, citing Jean-Jacques Jespers,
Dictionnaire des noms de lieux en Wallonie et à Bruxelles,
Racine, Bruxelles, 2005.

<Flaumandrum> terres (suff. anc. germ. -andrum) inondées
(anc. germ. <flauma>, frison <flâm>)[1]. Le mot désigne
les marais côtiers et de l'estuaire de l'Escaut.

Many Gmc. place-names survive in what was originally the
dative, owing to frequent use after dative prepositions; if
the underlying place-name was plural ('flooded lands'), a
dative plural is very reasonable. I don't recognize the
supposed place-name suffix, though.

Brian