From: tgpedersen
Message: 58511
Date: 2008-05-15
>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/34611
> At 5:13:23 PM on Wednesday, May 14, 2008, Miguel Carrasquer
> Vidal wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:20:07 -0700 (PDT), "Joao S. Lopes"
> > <josimo70@...> wrote:
>
> >>Does anyone know the correct etymology of Flanders and
> >>Fleming? I'm finding many references about Flanders
> >>(Vlaanderen) meaning "low land", or "flooded land". I'd
> >>like to know the Germanic original form. Vlaa < *Fla: I
> >>can relate to flood, fluot, flo:d, but the ending
> >>-deren...
>
> > According to Wikipedia (without references):
>
> > Vlaanderen, Vlaming en Vlaams zijn afgeleid van flâm, een
> > Ingveoonse vorm van het Germaanse flauma en dit betekent
> > "overstroomd gebied". Deze etymologie lijkt de enige die
> > taalkundig mogelijk is en klopt geografisch uitstekend. Deze
> > betekenis is zeer toepasselijk voor het Vlaamse kustgebied
> > dat tussen de 3de en de 8ste eeuw tweemaal per dag
> > overstroomde door de Noor dzee.
> > Een inwoner van dit overstroomd gebied is dus een Flaming,
> > het adjectief Flamis. Door bij de stam flâm het suffix
> > -andra te voegen, bekomt men in datief meervoud Flaumandrum,
> > verkort tot Flamandrum en uiteindelijk Flandrum. [...]
>
> > Translated:
>
> > "Vlaanderen (Flanders), Vlaming (Fleming) and Vlaams
> > (Flemish) are derived from *flâm, an Ingvaeonic form of
> > Germanic *flaumaz [PIE *plou-mos --mcv], meaning "flooded
> > area". This etymology appears to be the only one that is
> > linguistically possible and geographically accurate. The
> > semantics are a perfect fit for the Flemish coastal area
> > which between the 3rd and 8th centuries was flooded by the
> > North Sea twice a day.
> > An inhabitant of this flooded area is a flâming, the
> > adjective is flâmisk."
>
> > Apart from a few typos in the original text, the above
> > seems plausible enough. But the following passage looks
> > like it was summarized from a scientific source by someone
> > who didn't fully understand what he was summarizing:
>
> > "By adding to the stem flâm the suffix -andra, one gets a
> > dative plural Flaumandrum, shortened to Flamandrum and
> > eventually to Flandrum."
>
> > I don't know what kind of suffix -andra is, and I don't
> > know what the Dat.pl. has to do with anything.
>
> <http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flandre> offers a compact
> version of the same etymology, citing Jean-Jacques Jespers,
> Dictionnaire des noms de lieux en Wallonie et à Bruxelles,
> Racine, Bruxelles, 2005.
>
> <Flaumandrum> terres (suff. anc. germ. -andrum) inondées
> (anc. germ. <flauma>, frison <flâm>)[1]. Le mot désigne
> les marais côtiers et de l'estuaire de l'Escaut.
>
> Many Gmc. place-names survive in what was originally the
> dative, owing to frequent use after dative prepositions; if
> the underlying place-name was plural ('flooded lands'), a
> dative plural is very reasonable. I don't recognize the
> supposed place-name suffix, though.