Re: Gyula

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- tolgs001 <george_st@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > (chapter) 27 De morte Gelu
> >
> > (.......) Et pugnatum est inter eos acriter, sed
> > uicti sunt milites
> > ducis gelou, et ex eis multi interfecti, plures uero
> > capti. Cum gelou
> > dux eorum hoc uidisset, tunc pro defensione uite,
> > cum paucis fugam
> > cepit. Qui cum fugeret, properans ad castrum suum
> > iuxta fluuim zomus
> > positum, milites tuhutum audacj cursu persequentes,
> > ducem geloum iuxta
> > fluuium copus interfecerunt. Tunc habitatores terre
> > uidentes mortem
> > domini sui, sua propria uoluntate dextram dantes,
> > dominum sibi
> > elegerunt tuhutum patrem horca. Et in loco illo, qui
> > dicitur esculeu
> > fidem cum iuramentu firmauerunt.
> >
> > Et a die illo locus ille nuncupatus est esculeu eo
> > quod ibi
> > iurauerunt.
>
> ****GK: Is this the Gelou "duke of Vlachs and Slavs"?
> If so, there is a bit of information about the event
> which predates Anonymous by some 84 years or
> thereabouts. I wrote an article about it in the
> Bukovyns'kyj Zhurnal (1994) ["The Romanian question in
> the light of the Tale of Bygone Years", The Bukovynian
> Journal, 1995, n. 3-4, pp. 97-119. (In Ukr.) Reviewed
> in The Bukovynian Journal (1997), n. 1, pp. 150-151.
> The B.J. is a publication of the University of
> Chernivtsi in Ukraine]
>
> The basic thesis of the article is that the "Vlach and
> Slav" princedom conquered by the "Black" Ugrians ca.
> 898-> was located in Transylvania, and was an
> autonomous component of the Bulgarian state, perhaps
> established in the time of Krum, after the collapse of
> Avar power there. The information about the "Black
> Ugrian" conquest was an addition by Sylvester to
> Nestor's original text. It implied that the ruler of
> the territory was a Vlach (no name given),that he
> ruled over both Vlachs and Slavs, and that the
> victorious "Ugrians" chased the Vlach aristocrats from
> the land. While only mentioning Ugrians and Slavs
> thereafter(as nobility) Sylvester does not deny the
> continuance of Vlach commoners in the land.****
>

Yes, the oldest attestation is that one of Gelou "dux Blachorum"

Now if Gyula and Gelou represent one and the same name with
different spellings (for sure they are different historical persons)
is disputed.

Marius