Re: gast

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "jouppe" <jouppe@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Peter P" <roskis@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > So, assignment:
> > >
> > > What kind of scenario would permit both
> > > xx substrate -> Finn kansa, Gmc. *xanso: / Saami guos'si ->

Gmc.

> *gasti-
> > > etc?
> > >
> > >
> > > Torsten
> > >
> >
> > Then one would also like to explain Permian cognates...
> >
> > Zyrian 'goz' and Votyak 'kuz'.
> >
> > I don't think that it is certain that Fin. 'kansa' < *hansa:,
> although
> > it is a likely possibility.
> >
> > We should also look at Fin. 'kanssa' - with < kansa, which falls
> more
> > in line with the Permian meanings of - pair.
> >
> > Where is Jouppe when we need him?
> >
> > Peter P
> >
>

<snip>

>
> Fi. kanssa (postposition: 'with, in the company of') < kans(a)+ssa
> (contracted under weak "stress") or perhaps < kans(a)+na? seems a
> younger development to me due to the cluster -nss- and will

therefore

> not contribute to the etymology of the older word.
>
> Some value this derivative may have in that it may bear independent
> testimony of some Late/Middle-Proto-Finnic meaning of the word it

is

> derived from.
>
> The meaning of 'guest, stranger' in Saami and 'pair, man and wife'

in

> Permic could easily be parallelled by the meaning of the

postposition

> kanssa 'with, in the company of' and provide the key to

understanding

> the semantic history of this word.
>
> But then again the semantics of Late-Proto Finnic (and the later
> borrowed Saami gaddže) matches Germanic better.
>
> The more I look on this equation I come to think there is a more
> economic solution, considering the mysterious origin of *xanso: the
> wide distribution on the Finno-Permian side and the indication of

an

> older primary meaning slightly divergent from Germanic:
>
> Paleo-Germanic may have borrowed this word from Middle Proto-Finnic
> before Grimm's shift.
>
> Jouppe
>

One more remark: If Paleo-Germanic *kansa: would be a borrowing from
Proto Finnic-Saami *kansa the latter would still be in need of an
etymology, because a cluster *-ns- is very unlikely to have occured
in Proto-Uralic and I see no morpheme boundary here either.
So where would we have an older IE-original for this word?

Jouppe