From: Rick McCallister
Message: 57034
Date: 2008-04-08
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dutch-based_pidgins_and_creoles
> <fournet.arnaud@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > It never stopped to be spoken by a majority of
> people
> > > > whose mother tongue was a set of dialectal
> varieties of
> > > > Dutch.
> > >
> > > Exactly. Since it was extraterritorial, it was
> subject to
> > > contact influences different from those of the
> (European)
> > > Dutch dialects, but 'creolized Dutch' is a gross
> > > exaggeration.
> >
> > Tell it to Wikipedia
> >
>
> >In response to Arnaud, the majority of Afrikaans
> > I think linguistics needs a category of 'partially
> preserved,
> > partially creolized languages' and after I place
> Afrikaans there,
> > I'd place all the central Germanic languages.
> > Torsten
> > =========
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
> >
> > They don't even mention the word "creole".
> >
> > Afrikaans is basically an evolved geo-socio-lect
> of Dutch
> > in the African context of mixed populations of
> natives and
> > immigrants.
> >
> > Arnaud
> > ===============
> What is a geo-socio-lect? Does this originating
> Dutch geo-socio-lect
> correspond to any known Dutcch dia- or sociolect,
> and if yes, which
> one? In which sense has it 'evolved'? Do you know of
> any circumstances
> under which this vapid truism could be untrue?
>
> Quote from the above article:
> 'There are many different theories about how
> Afrikaans came to be. The
> Afrikaans School has long seen Afrikaans as a
> natural development from
> the South-Hollandic Dutch dialect,
> [TP: That's Brian's viewpoint]
> but has also only considered the Afrikaans as spoken
> by the Whites.
> Others believe that Afrikaans was originally spoken
> by the Khoisan
> people after using words they heard from the
> Dutch.[citation needed]
>
> Though this "theory" would imply the improbability
> of a language
> systematically developing out of a grammatology.
> [TP: I wonder what that means?]
> Furthermore, this theory would fail to explain the
> systematic process
> of simplification from dialectical 17th century
> Dutch to Afrikaans,
> its geographically widespread and cohesive nature
> and also the
> persistent structural similarities between Afrikaans
> and other
> regional Franconic dialects including Flemish and
> Frisian.'
>
> Please go ahead and explain, Brian.
>
>
> Torsten
>