Re: Volcae and Volsci

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:
> >
> > > At 5:21:12 PM on Sunday, April 6, 2008,
> > > fournet.arnaud
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > >> Afrikaans is a creolized Dutch.
> > >
> > > > Afrikaans looks like a dialect of Dutch.
> > >
> > > That might be a little bit too strong, but it
> > > certainly is descended from 17th century Dutch.
> > >
> > > > It never stopped to be spoken by a majority of
> people
> > > > whose mother tongue was a set of dialectal
> varieties of
> > > > Dutch.
> > >
> > > Exactly. Since it was extraterritorial, it was
> subject to
> > > contact influences different from those of the
> (European)
> > > Dutch dialects, but 'creolized Dutch' is a gross
> > > exaggeration.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > I've seen descriptions of it as a creole language.
> > Dutch speakers tell me it's about a far from Dutch
> as
> > Jamaican patois is from English --more than the
> > difference between US and British English. It
> > supposedly has a simplified grammar and has
> influence
> > from german, French, English and various
> autochthonous
> > African languages.
>
> Compare for yourself:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans_grammar
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_grammar
>
>
> Torsten

My first impression was that there was a strong French
influence --because of the passé composé. And the
article confirms it. But there was something else as
well, e.g. lack of gender, etc. So there are some
indications that children were picking up much of the
language from servants. The strong syntax rule is
interesting. So there is creolization at work. The
question is whether there's enough for you to convince
Brian.
This also brings up the question for me whether or not
strongly analytic languages aren't always or usually
the result of (some degree of) creolization --e.g.
Chinese, Bengali, English, etc.

>
>
>

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