From: tgpedersen
Message: 55322
Date: 2008-03-16
>I vaguely recall that since the Posidonius statement is in a quote by
> A final tip,to encourage you to read the sources more
> carefully(as if that willhelp...)
>
>
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@> wrote:
> > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > > > Caesar is the first to mention the Germani at all,and
> > > > Ariovistus is the first one of them he sees.
> > >
> > > GK: Posidonius of Apamea, in the lost 30th book of
> > > his "Histories", published ca.80 BCE mentions the
> > > eating and drinking customs of the Germani. Since
> > > these drink wine, they are probably the early
> > > Cisrhenani who crossed the Rhine long before
> > > Ariovistus, or those just east of the Rhine. In the
> > > Posidonius context a Celtic (Gaulish) etymology for
> > > the term seems quite defensible.
> >
> > Well, thank you. Consequently, it would appear that I have used
> > ordinary, not Torsten logic, to reach this conclusion.
>
> > ****GK: Torsten Logic: I claim that "Caesar is the first to
> > mention the Germani at all". I am told it was Posidonius. I
> > respond "Well, thank you. Consequently, it would appear that I
> > have used ordinary, not Torsten logic, to reach this
> > conclusion."****
> > > > Come to think of it: Ariovistus' troops have slept without aNo, that was pure sloppiness, of the ordinary kind. Sorry about that.
> > > > roof in fourteen years, presumably as Haedui mercenaries. Why
> > > > would they, in the course of (pecuniary) duty, have spent time
> > > > in the Wetterau? There weren't any Arverni enemies there. I
> > > > propose therefore instead that the Wetterau Przeworsk were
> > > > the Harudes waiting to be settled in Haedui territory. That
> > > > would make the Harudes Przeworsk, which is OK; all
> > > > intelligence we have of them being elsewhere is later than the
> > > > Ariovistus incident.
> > > >
> > > > As for the 15,000 becoming 120,000, those extra people either
> > > > came to the Haedui on their own initiative, or the Haedui,
> > > > unwilling to fight for their own cause, sent for them when
> > > > the war went badly. One day came when they couldn't pay their
> > > > services and the mercenaries demanded land instead. Happened
> > > > before, happened since, will happen again.
> > >
> > > GK: This is a good example of "Torsten logic".
> >
> > Could you be more specific? So far, all I have to go by is that
> > every time I reach a conclusion you don't like, I have used
> > Torsten logic, but if you do like it, I haven't. That can't be all
> > there is to it?
> > Please enlighten me!
> >
> > > Now for the facts:
> > >
> > > DBG 1.31: "it came to pass that the Germans were
> > > called in for hire by the Arverni and the Sequani.
> > > That about 15,000 of them [i.e. of the Germans] had at
> > > first crossed the Rhine : but after that these wild
> > > and savage men had become enamored of the lands and
> > > the refinement and the abundance of the Gauls, more
> > > were brought over, that there were now as many as
> > > 120,000 of them in Gaul: that with these the Aedui and
> > > their dependents had repeatedly struggled in arms - that
> > > they had been routed, and had sustained a great calamity
> > > - had lost all their nobility, all their senate, all their
> > > cavalry." The subsequent context indicates that it was
> > > Ariovistus who kept inviting new bands of Germans in,
> >
> > It does? Please quote that then, the above doesn't
> > document that claim.
>
> ****GK: Do your homework. Read the text (as if that
> will help...more below (sigh))....
> >
> >
> > > and the battle of Magetobria,won
> > > by his forces, was the "great calamity". There is not
> > > a hint of any "mercenaries" vesus "mercenaries"
> > > struggle according to Torsten logic.****
> >
> > "Mercenaries" versus "mercenaries"?? When did I
> > claim that? Please explain.
>
> ****GK: You claimed the Aedui hired Ariovistus and his
> Germans as mercenaries in their struggle with the
> Arverni. Caesar mentions the hiring of mercenaries by
> the Arverni and Sequani. Hence "mercenaries" vs.
> "mercenaries". Torsten Logic.****