From: george knysh
Message: 55320
Date: 2008-03-16
>****GK: Torsten Logic: I claim that "Caesar is the
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> <gknysh@...> wrote:
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > > Caesar is the first to mention the Germani at
> all,and Ariovistus
> > > is the first one of them he sees.
> >
> > GK: Posidonius of Apamea, in the lost 30th
> book of
> > his "Histories", published ca.80 BCE mentions the
> > eating and drinking customs of the Germani. Since
> > these drink wine, they are probably the early
> > Cisrhenani who crossed the Rhine long before
> > Ariovistus, or those just east of the Rhine. In
> the
> > Posidonius context a Celtic (Gaulish) etymology
> for
> > the term seems quite defensible.
>
> Well, thank you. Consequently, it would appear that
> I have used
> ordinary, not Torsten logic, to reach this
> conclusion.
> all". I am told it was Posidonius. I respond "Well,thank you. Consequently, it would appear that
> I have used****GK: Do your homework. Read the text (as if that
> ordinary, not Torsten logic, to reach this
> conclusion."****
>
>
> > > Come to think of it: Ariovistus' troops have
> slept without a roof
> > > in fourteen years, presumably as Haedui
> mercenaries. Why would
> > > they, in the course of (pecuniary) duty, have
> spent time in the
> > > Wetterau? There weren't any Arverni enemies
> there. I propose
> > > therefore instead that the Wetterau Przeworsk
> were the Harudes
> > > waiting to be settled in Haedui territory. That
> would make the
> > > Harudes Przeworsk, which is OK; all intelligence
> we have of them
> > > being elsewhere is later than the Ariovistus
> incident.
> > >
> > > As for the 15,000 becoming 120,000, those extra
> > > people either came to the Haedui on their own
> initiative, or the
> > > Haedui, unwilling to fight for their own cause,
> sent for them when
> > > the war went badly. One day came when they
> couldn't pay their
> > > services and the mercenaries demanded land
> instead. Happened
> > > before, happened since, will happen again.
> >
> > GK: This is a good example of "Torsten logic".
>
> Could you be more specific? So far, all I have to go
> by is that every
> time I reach a conclusion you don't like, I have
> used Torsten logic,
> but if you do like it, I haven't. That can't be all
> there is to it?
> Please enlighten me!
>
> > Now for the facts:
> >
> > DBG 1.31: "it came to pass that the Germans were
> > called in for hire by the Arverni and the Sequani.
> > That about 15,000 of them [i.e. of the Germans]
> had at
> > first crossed the Rhine : but after that these
> wild
> > and savage men had become enamored of the lands
> and
> > the refinement and the abundance of the Gauls,
> more
> > were brought over, that there were now as many as
> > 120,000 of them in Gaul: that with these the Aedui
> and
> > their dependents had repeatedly struggled in
> arms-that
> > they had been routed, and had sustained a great
> > calamity-had lost all their nobility, all their
> > senate, all their cavalry." The subsequent context
> > indicates that it was Ariovistus who kept inviting
> new
> > bands of Germans in,
>
> It does? Please quote that then, the above doesn't
> document that claim.
>****GK: You claimed the Aedui hired Ariovistus and his
>
> > and the battle of Magetobria,won
> > by his forces, was the "great calamity". There is
> not
> > a hint of any "mercenaries" vesus "mercenaries"
> > struggle according to Torsten logic.****
>
> "Mercenaries" versus "mercenaries"?? When did I
> claim that? Please
> explain.