Re: Torsten's theory reviewed

From: george knysh
Message: 55320
Date: 2008-03-16

A final tip,to encourage you to read the sources more
carefully(as if that willhelp...)



--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> <gknysh@...> wrote:
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > > Caesar is the first to mention the Germani at
> all,and Ariovistus
> > > is the first one of them he sees.
> >
> > GK: Posidonius of Apamea, in the lost 30th
> book of
> > his "Histories", published ca.80 BCE mentions the
> > eating and drinking customs of the Germani. Since
> > these drink wine, they are probably the early
> > Cisrhenani who crossed the Rhine long before
> > Ariovistus, or those just east of the Rhine. In
> the
> > Posidonius context a Celtic (Gaulish) etymology
> for
> > the term seems quite defensible.
>
> Well, thank you. Consequently, it would appear that
> I have used
> ordinary, not Torsten logic, to reach this
> conclusion.

****GK: Torsten Logic: I claim that "Caesar is the
first to mention the Germani at
> all". I am told it was Posidonius. I respond "Well,
thank you. Consequently, it would appear that
> I have used
> ordinary, not Torsten logic, to reach this
> conclusion."****

>
>
> > > Come to think of it: Ariovistus' troops have
> slept without a roof
> > > in fourteen years, presumably as Haedui
> mercenaries. Why would
> > > they, in the course of (pecuniary) duty, have
> spent time in the
> > > Wetterau? There weren't any Arverni enemies
> there. I propose
> > > therefore instead that the Wetterau Przeworsk
> were the Harudes
> > > waiting to be settled in Haedui territory. That
> would make the
> > > Harudes Przeworsk, which is OK; all intelligence
> we have of them
> > > being elsewhere is later than the Ariovistus
> incident.
> > >
> > > As for the 15,000 becoming 120,000, those extra
> > > people either came to the Haedui on their own
> initiative, or the
> > > Haedui, unwilling to fight for their own cause,
> sent for them when
> > > the war went badly. One day came when they
> couldn't pay their
> > > services and the mercenaries demanded land
> instead. Happened
> > > before, happened since, will happen again.
> >
> > GK: This is a good example of "Torsten logic".
>
> Could you be more specific? So far, all I have to go
> by is that every
> time I reach a conclusion you don't like, I have
> used Torsten logic,
> but if you do like it, I haven't. That can't be all
> there is to it?
> Please enlighten me!
>
> > Now for the facts:
> >
> > DBG 1.31: "it came to pass that the Germans were
> > called in for hire by the Arverni and the Sequani.
> > That about 15,000 of them [i.e. of the Germans]
> had at
> > first crossed the Rhine : but after that these
> wild
> > and savage men had become enamored of the lands
> and
> > the refinement and the abundance of the Gauls,
> more
> > were brought over, that there were now as many as
> > 120,000 of them in Gaul: that with these the Aedui
> and
> > their dependents had repeatedly struggled in
> arms-that
> > they had been routed, and had sustained a great
> > calamity-had lost all their nobility, all their
> > senate, all their cavalry." The subsequent context
> > indicates that it was Ariovistus who kept inviting
> new
> > bands of Germans in,
>
> It does? Please quote that then, the above doesn't
> document that claim.

****GK: Do your homework. Read the text (as if that
will help...more below (sigh))....
>
>
> > and the battle of Magetobria,won
> > by his forces, was the "great calamity". There is
> not
> > a hint of any "mercenaries" vesus "mercenaries"
> > struggle according to Torsten logic.****
>
> "Mercenaries" versus "mercenaries"?? When did I
> claim that? Please
> explain.

****GK: You claimed the Aedui hired Ariovistus and his
Germans as mercenaries in their struggle with the
Arverni. Caesar mentions the hiring of mercenaries by
the Arverni and Sequani. Hence "mercenaries" vs.
"mercenaries". Torsten Logic.****



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